Winter Temporary greens

[Parky24]

I'm getting fed up with 18 temps every time I have the chance to play. Are all clubs doing this at the moment. I mean what really is the problem playing on the normal green anyway. What research has ever been done to suggest playing on the normal green will have any adverse affect come Spring time when Mother Nature heals and grows over any damaged roots.

Am I being naive here or what.......is there somewhere I can get the definitive answer from. All I know it's a joke playing to a hole cut out in the fairway.

 

[hovis]

there is no definitive answer. the head green keeper at the forest or arden said that playing on greens in the winter, especially when frozen is very bad for them.
the head green keeper at the belfry allows people to play on a frozen solid green. both courses have fantastic greens in the spring.

my personal opinion is many members clubs have fairway mats and temporary greens purely to save the green keepers work rather than protecting the course.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm getting fed up with 18 temps every time I have the chance to play. Are all clubs doing this at the moment. I mean what really is the problem playing on the normal green anyway. What research has ever been done to suggest playing on the normal green will have any adverse affect come Spring time when Mother Nature heals and grows over any damaged roots.

Am I being naive here or what.......is there somewhere I can get the definitive answer from. All I know it's a joke playing to a hole cut out in the fairway.

I know exactly what you mean. We are on them while the frost is around with huge bucket holes to boot. I usually don't bother as it's impossible to stop the ball anywhere near, usually kicking off the frozen uneven bounce and chipping and putting become a joke with the larger holes. Personally, working on weak areas like pitching etc is time much better spent. This is what the club put on our website recently

FROST DAMAGE

How can a foot print be a killer?

When it’s a footprint made on a putting surface that’s covered with frost. It may be hard to believe that simply walking across a green covered with frost can cause so much damage but the proof will be there in a few days as the turf grass dies and leaves a trail of brown footprints. Although the white frost may quickly disappear, just half an inch below the surface the grass and its root structure will still be frozen and therefore vulnerable to damage. A little extra patience will ensure the continued well-being of our greens. That’s why most courses will delay start times until the frost has melted, and why golfers who appreciate a quality putting surface will be patient during frost delays.



Why does frost cause problems?

Greens are fragile; every green is a collection of millions of individual grass plants, each of which is a delicate living thing. These plants were never meant to be maintained at a low cutting height for prolonged periods and this stress makes greens constantly vulnerable to attacks from insects, drought, disease, heat, cold---and frost.

Frost is essentially frozen dew; the ice crystals that form on the outside of the plant can also harden or even freeze the structure of the plant. When frosted, the normally resilient plant cells become brittle & are easily crushed. When the cell membranes are damaged, the plant cannot function normally.

Although you won’t see any immediate damage if you walk on frosted turf, the proof will emerge within 48- 72 hours as the leaves die & turn brown. Since one foursome can leave several hundred footprints on each green, the damage can be very extensive.



Thank you for your understanding

The damage is not just unsightly- putting quality will also be reduced until repairs are made. These repairs are expensive and, in some cases, the green may be out of play until new turf grass is established. A short delay while the frost melts can preserve the quality of the greens and prevent needless repairs.

 

[Doh]

We don't go onto Temps at all during the winter, our head green keeper says that grass will nearly always recover. This includes playing on them when frozen.

 

[chrisd]

We've played recently when they've been frozen solid but I was told that the problem occurs when they partially thaw. Apparently, when the top surface thaws and deeper down the roots are still frozen then a ball thudding in to the green will often break the root from the grass and the healing process takes much longer

 

[need_my_wedge]

I was discussing tmp greens with our head pro at the weekend as it was frozen hard and we're still on full greens and tees. as explained to me, he follows the advice of our head greenkeeper, who never went off full greens at his previous course. The only time we'll go to temp greens is if the ground is too hard to cut a new hole to move to. With regards to damage of grass, he explained that when frozen hard, it's no issue, it may break a blade of grass ot two, but doesn't damage the actual root, the problem comes when it starts to thaw and there is a soft cover on top but the root is still frozen. This apparently can cause damage to the root.

I don't know how "scientific" that response was, but I'm no gardener, let alone greenkeeper, so am happy to go by his lead. If he says we go to temp greens, then that's where we go. We've been fortunate thus far, that for the three winters he's been with us, we haven't been off our greens for frost, and have had fantastic greens through the summer. Too be frank, they are in bloody good condition now as well, despite being a little firm.

 

[pendodave]

We've been on 18 temps throughout the current frosty period. It doesn't particularly bother me. The fairways are bouncing all over the place, and even if we were on full greens the balls would be bouncing off and wobbling about for every putt.

I reckon it knocks half hour off the round too, which in the current chilly temps is no bad thing.

I suspect that the importance of green fees to a club's coffers is a key driver.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

We have temp greens in play when frozen hard like it has been lately. Don't really have an issue with it as it allows the course to be open and gets me out of the house, it is winter golf after all. Would rather have temp greens from time to time and good greens the rest of the year.

 

[Reemul]

I don't think people would have an issue with Temp greens if everywhere had them but they don't.

It makes you think if they can manage the issue why can't we or is the reasoning behind them not correct do we not understand the issue at hand.

As mentioned above it can give the impression that it saves the Green keeper the hassle of dealing with it and keeping things simple.

I don't mind temp greens too much as long as it's not bucket holes and temp greens that play more like a bomb site.

The thing I dislike is small poorly kept mats for teeing off with they really suck.

 

[Imurg]

We have temps at The Zoo, we don't at Aylesbury Park...
In all honesty, when the greens are frozen, there's little to no difference between them - you can't stop a ball on them and putting's a lottery.
It's not proper golf if the greens are frozen so I don't see an issue.....

 

[USER1999]

The issue i have is that each hole is pretty much shortened by 90 yards for us, which when combined with very forward tees makes it all very mickey mouse. Especially as people still want their 90 percent in bounce games.

Also, the practice putting and chipping greens are always open, and they never seem to require remedial work, and are always mint. Odd that, if it does so much damage.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

What research has ever been done to suggest playing on the normal green will have any adverse affect come Spring time when Mother Nature heals and grows over any damaged roots.

Actually, massive amounts of research has been done. Just search on google.

 

[USER1999]

Actually, massive amounts of research has been done. Just search on google.

A lot of it is American research on sand based greens though. Ours are clay based and 126 years old.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

A lot of it is American research on sand based greens though. Ours are clay based and 126 years old.

Then try searching for 126 year old clay based greens.

 

[MendieGK]

Then try searching for 126 year old clay based greens.

out of interest, do both Broadstone and Hayling go onto Temps? I Know Hayling does, but their greens are hardly fantastic in the summer anyway

Burnham (whos green are arguably as good as they get for a links course) and The Players do not put temps on when its frozen.

So their certainly seems to be a differing opinion!

I'd be interested to know what the green keeper @ Ealing does, as those greens are the best in the country

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Yes both clubs do Sam. Research suggests that the damage is done when the ground starts to thaw out and this can cause snapping of the roots. I don't know the effects on different types of grasses though. I'm not really into agronomy, I trust the greenkeepers to make the right decisions.

 

[karlcole]

We have temps just when its frozen but no matts at all during winter. Also when its not frozen we revert back to normal greens. This is the main reason I joined this club. I couldn't justify paying membership for a course that's on temps and matts 6 months a year.

 

[Tashyboy]

Can someone explain what a winter temporary green is. 😁For the record we play our greens all year, and our greens are superb. Has any course ever tried playing on them in the winter and decided it was a bad idea and gone back to temps. The fact that you cannot hold greens from X number of yards means you have to change your game a bit.
At times I wonder why some people play golf. Throughout the year I have heard on this forum that
winter, we are on temp greens, fairway mats, temp tees,
Spring, My course has been flooded for X number of weeks.
Summer, The grass, rough is to long.
Autumn, there's only four weeks left how did your season go 😂
I really do consider myself lucky golfing at our course coz we have none of the above at our place.

 

[Oxfordcomma]

Our greens are some of the best in the area but we don't go to temp greens for frost. Our course manager sent round a note at the start of the winter explaining his philosophy, which is pretty much as need_my_wedge detailed - walking on frosty and frozen greens is fine, but he'll go to temps if necessary as they thaw as that's when root damage is likely. I don't think I've seen a temp green yet this winter.

I follow my old club and my current club on twitter and most mornings at the moment I wake up to see side by side updates, one says 18 temps and the other says 18 full greens!

 

[IanM]

Newport goes to temps when hard frost...

These are the hole cut on a front apron... Its is pain, but with Winter Golf in the UK, you expect some disruption due to weather. We tend to shrug it off and enjoy getting out and keeping the muscles loose! Mostly its not that often they are in use.

Going "away" and paying a green fee is a different discussion... wouldn't pay to play on temps...

For every article that says "do" you can find one that says "no need!"

I have yet to have our Head Green Keeper challenge my understanding of Change Management, so I wont do same to him about Greens!