WHS doesn't work

[Alan Clifford]

Also I have seen that, the Spanish Federation only allow one GP (away?) score on any players record per month - I have not seen this corroborated though. https://www.rfegolf.es/ArtculosDocumento/Comité Campos y Hándicap/2021/Sistema Mundial de Hándicap - Artículos en inglés/WHS PROCEDURE GUIDE.pdf

I wonder that meshes with their policy, if any, for people who go and play in a different juristdiction for a couple of months. They couldn't come back and submit their last 20 scores into the Spanish system if they were general play scores.

 

[D-S]

I wonder that meshes with their policy, if any, for people who go and play in a different juristdiction for a couple of months. They couldn't come back and submit their last 20 scores into the Spanish system if they were general play scores.

I’m not sure, perhaps it’s a bit like going on holiday to the US and entering lots of cards on to your UK record from formats which are unacceptable to England Golf for example.
Sort of makes a nonsense of mirrored records if the bases of the scores are ‘unacceptable’.

 

[wjemather]

I’m not sure, perhaps it’s a bit like going on holiday to the US and entering lots of cards on to your UK record from formats which are unacceptable to England Golf for example.
Sort of makes a nonsense of mirrored records if the bases of the scores are ‘unacceptable’.

Scores are acceptable when the format is authorized either at home or where the round is played (rule 2.1a).

 

[D-S]

Scores are acceptable when the format is authorized either at home or where the round is played (rule 2.1a).

I understand this but it still makes it odd to have a UK or Spanish HI 100% based on formats that are deemed unacceptable for handicapping by the English/Scottish/Welsh or Spanish authorities who hold/control your HI.

 

[Swango1980]

I understand this but it still makes it odd to have a UK or Spanish HI 100% based on formats that are deemed unacceptable for handicapping by the English/Scottish/Welsh or Spanish authorities who hold/control your HI.

Well, it is a WORLD handicap system. Handicaps are transferable all over the world, and those handicaps are based on the scores that are submitted. It wouldn't be much of a world system if you had to remove loads of scores and adjust your record when you go globe trotting.

Not sure why Spain are so strict though. It seems like the USA are very relaxed, Spain mega strict and the UK somewhere in between

 

[Alan Clifford]

Well, it is a WORLD handicap system. Handicaps are transferable all over the world, and those handicaps are based on the scores that are submitted. It wouldn't be much of a world system if you had to remove loads of scores and adjust your record when you go globe trotting.

Not sure why Spain are so strict though. It seems like the USA are very relaxed, Spain mega strict and the UK somewhere in between

If you have a Spanish handicap and play general play in UK, then if Spain doesn't allow you to put in those scores, it severely breaks the "World" bit of WHS.

Somewhat on a par (sic) with South Africa whose system is not set up for the entry of foreign 9 hole scores.

 

[D-S]

Well, it is a WORLD handicap system. Handicaps are transferable all over the world, and those handicaps are based on the scores that are submitted. It wouldn't be much of a world system if you had to remove loads of scores and adjust your record when you go globe trotting.

Not sure why Spain are so strict though. It seems like the USA are very relaxed, Spain mega strict and the UK somewhere in between

I take your point but if that was the case and it was a truly world system, scores would have to be acceptable in their own jurisdiction by all authorities.

If EG don't think, for whatever reason, that 4BB matchplay or 2 out of 4 team scores are not valid for a players handicap, why do they accept a record for a player under their system/control consisting solely of these 'unacceptable' scores just because they happen to be played in a different location?

 

[IanM]

Well, it is a WORLD handicap system.

You think the W stands for world??

 

[ExRabbit]

I might be wrong, but I would guess that at least 95% (99% maybe) of our players would love to go back to the old system. I'm pretty good with numbers, and I have had loads of people asking me this and that why their handicaps have changed since WHS came in, but I can now no longer be bothered to be on top of how it works - I have been on the competition committee in the past, but not now.

It was so much better after a round when you were telling so-and-so that you had a bet with that they were going to lose 2.1 or something for the next few months or more, or congratulating someone on achieving a new low - without having to see what score dropped off 20 qualifying rounds ago.

And the last time a group from our club went abroad for a week, they decided beforehand that they weren't going to bother with all of the WHS stuff as it was too much bother, and everyone played off their rounded current HI - that seems to sum it up for me.

 

[Swango1980]

I might be wrong, but I would guess that at least 95% (99% maybe) of our players would love to go back to the old system. I'm pretty good with numbers, and I have had loads of people asking me this and that why their handicaps have changed since WHS came in, but I can now no longer be bothered to be on top of how it works - I have been on the competition committee in the past, but not now.

It was so much better after a round when you were telling so-and-so that you had a bet with that they were going to lose 2.1 or something for the next few months or more, or congratulating someone on achieving a new low - without having to see what score dropped off 20 qualifying rounds ago.

And the last time a group from our club went abroad for a week, they decided beforehand that they weren't going to bother with all of the WHS stuff as it was too much bother, and everyone played off their rounded current HI - that seems to sum it up for me

I'd say 95 to 99% is an extreme exaggeration. I'd even go as far as saying well over 50% don't care either way.

I certainly know of a lot of people who much prefer WHS, especially once they stop getting hung up on things like Playing Allowances (I.e. do we use 95% or not, and if not why is it different I'm comps).

It is especially better at adjusting shots based on difficulty of course, and that will be even clearer from next month when both absolute and relative difficulties are considered. I know many that like that.

As for people who decide not to use he system fully when they go somewhere else, that is up to them. Seems strange though. If they are still happy to use their Index given to them by WHS, surely it isn't a huge step to look up their course handicap on a board by the 1st tee, or wherever it is?

 

[Tashyboy]

In our fuddle we have winter and summer Handicaps. Essentially it runs alongside when the Qualifying comps start and finish. At the start of both seasons we reset the handicaps to the WHS Handicap. In our fuddle there are folk from the ages of mid 20’s to late 70’s. The fuddle for some reason has always been played off the whites. For a course that is long, it’s a struggle for some of the older players.
Last couple of years I have struggled with my driving, there are green shoots of recovery just recently but bottom line I wasn’t enjoying golf. So I thought sod this “ I am going off yellows” and I did all last season. I was the only one. The golf wasn’t much better but I never lost balls off the tees but more importantly I started enjoying golf again. The fuddle group docked me two shots foe playing off yellows but I didn’t care.
Over the Winter months tees have been pushed forward and everyone has played off yellow tees. The clamour for the higher handicappers which predominantly are the older players to play off yellows next year reached a climax on Tuesday where we had a vote on how many shots a player off yellows should get. According to WHS it should be one shot. According to the fuddle players it should be 2,3 or 4. The majority voted for 2. Those that didn’t want it are still moaning saying it’s not enough. My simple answer is that if it is to generous ( and it’s more harsh than WHS).then play off yellows.
What I am trying to say is that I am not a lover of WHS in any shape or form but I totally get the thinking behind it allowing players to play off any colour tee and transferring of chaps to different courses. It’s just that it has got overly complicated to me.
I also think that no matter what hcap system is in place it won’t please everyone.

 

[clubchamp98]

If you have a Spanish handicap and play general play in UK, then if Spain doesn't allow you to put in those scores, it severely breaks the "World" bit of WHS.

Somewhat on a par (sic) with South Africa whose system is not set up for the entry of foreign 9 hole scores.

There should be no such thing as” foreign scores” in a world system only scores!

 

[rulefan]

I also think that no matter what hcap system is in place it won’t please everyone.

 

[Alan Clifford]

There should be no such thing as” foreign scores” in a world system only scores!

I guess they see holding all the world's rating in each country's data base as a problem? They should have designed it like DNS using a hierachical and distributed system rather than isolated databases.

 

[srixon 1]

Just had a look in WHS and my CH for our winter tees has changed from 1 to +2. . I know it’s the same for everyone and all relative but I’m never a +2 golfer. Is it something to do with April Fools day?

 

[Wabinez]

Just had a look in WHS and my CH for our winter tees has changed from 1 to +2. . I know it’s the same for everyone and all relative but I’m never a +2 golfer. Is it something to do with April Fools day?

You know the calculation for course handicap changed today?

CR is obviously well below par…so a scratch golfer would be expected to shoot -2 or -3 around it. It’s as simple as that.

The system now will truly reflect that 36 points is ‘playing to handicap’

 

[Voyager EMH]

I shall be playing in a fourball tomorrow.
We will draw for partners on the first tee and play betterball matchplay.
I am 4.3 and another chap is 5.7

We will be off the yellow tees par 70, CR 69.1 and SR 127.
He will get 2 shots from me.
Yesterday he would have got only one shot from me.

If we were to play from the white tees par 70, CR 70.8 and SR 132, he would get one shot from me.
Yesterday he would have got 2 shots from me.

I am having difficulty in accepting this as a rectifying adjustment.
I feel it was the right way round and that now it is the wrong way round.
The higher slope rating should make the difference between us greater not smaller. It did before and does now, but CR-Par scuppers that.
I know how the arithmetic works – no need to explain that to me.

Eventually I will forget what went before and accept the new system with CR-Par.
And that won’t take very long. But today the result of the change does look very odd. In fact the change looks completely wrong to me today.
I’ll get over it, though. Sure of that.

Perhaps it is true that for matchplay there is no need for CR-Par. Perhaps this will be something to be considered in the 2029 changes.

 

[IanM]

The changes in my ch seem very logical if you accept course rating as having some degree of accuracy/logic!

I haven't thought about shots received in matchplay. It's too early!

 

[srixon 1]

You know the calculation for course handicap changed today?

CR is obviously well below par…so a scratch golfer would be expected to shoot -2 or -3 around it. It’s as simple as that.

The system now will truly reflect that 36 points is ‘playing to handicap’

I know it changed today that’s why I looked. I can shoot 2 under from the forward tees but probably not when the course is as soft as it currently is and no run on tee shots. Course rating is lower but par is the same so psychologically it seems that it will be harder.

 

[Tashyboy]

I know it changed today that’s why I looked. I can shoot 2 under from the forward tees but probably not when the course is as soft as it currently is and no run on tee shots. Course rating is lower but par is the same so psychologically it seems that it will be harder.

As we all know, WHS is a vast improvement on the old Stableford system. WHS Which was changed a couple of years ago after loads of money spent and millions of hours doing course reviews. Coupled with algorithms and this years tweaking. What’s there to complain about.
I am already looking forward to next years upgrade