WHS doesn't work

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,695
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
This course is inland, tree-lined holes, many doglegs, usual amount of bunkers. I'm really struggling to see why the 110 slope rating.
Course rating seems to reflect overall length.

View attachment 46994


What I have noted from the overhead is reatively few bunkers (notably fairway ones ) greenside ones are always short front left and some holes do not have any bunkers.

there is only 0.2 difference between par and CR so it could be just one hole that adds the extra 0.2.
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,695
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
Boring anecdote warning!

I got one of those 1 shot increases for 7 consecutive +0.1. Three scores missing the buffer by one or two shots in September, then 4 weekday nine-hole comps in October.
The 0.7 increase was enough to make me a bit of a bandit for the winter. The 1.7 increase was fantastic.
Won a medal the following April by 4 shots. Had the best gross score as well - next best gross was 6 shots behind. Got a 0.8 cut. Won the club championship later that year.
I had told the chairman of H&C that I would be happy for the 1 shot increase to be not applied. He decided it should and would be applied.


That actually sounds like the H/C committee did not use the flow chart.
 

AussieKB

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Messages
851
Location
Australia
Visit site
What I have noted from the overhead is reatively few bunkers (notably fairway ones ) greenside ones are always short front left and some holes do not have any bunkers.

there is only 0.2 difference between par and CR so it could be just one hole that adds the extra 0.2.
Yes, numerous doglegs and when you miss the fairway you are not on grass but dirt and sand, so normally in a depression and very hard to get good ball contact, quite a few of the greens are raised as well, also the kikuyu grass does not give you much run.
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,695
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
Yes, numerous doglegs and when you miss the fairway you are not on grass but dirt and sand, so normally in a depression and very hard to get good ball contact, quite a few of the greens are raised as well, also the kikuyu grass does not give you much run.

Thanks for the guide.

Sounds a bit better than ours - miss our fairways and you could be in amongst the trees with only a side ways shot or a potential lost ball in the deep grass. Also we only have one hole without any bunkers. Slope rating yellow 124 white 128 CRs are less than par
 

clubchamp98

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
15,952
Location
Liverpool
Visit site
These ratings (CR < Par, and Slope marginally above average) do not suggest a particularly tough course.
Could that possibly be part of the problem.
from just three numbers you can come up with a conclusion like that. Without playing the course.
The Raters must be accurate.
But my course suits a draw and a fader of the ball will find it harder.
 

rosecott

Money List Winner
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
7,656
Location
Notts
Visit site
Could that possibly be part of the problem.
from just three numbers you can come up with a conclusion like that. Without playing the course.
The Raters must be accurate.
But my course suits a draw and a fader of the ball will find it harder.

I would anticipate a scratch golfer having the ability to cope with that.
 

clubchamp98

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
15,952
Location
Liverpool
Visit site
I would anticipate a scratch golfer having the ability to cope with that.
Yes I would to .
but I would think and would hope you think the same ,we do have courses that suit our eye .
this imo is generally because it suits our general shot shape.

a fader ,long hitter at mine would run out of fairway on a few holes and might have to hit less club.
but a drawer of the ball just bombs it down the apex of the corner.
so just an observation .

genuine question do course raters take shot shape into their calculations?
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
14,484
Visit site
genuine question do course raters take shot shape into their calculations?
The system assumes all players will attempt to put their ball into their optimum 'landing area' with a straight shot regardless of their natural shape. The 'landing area' gets bigger as handicaps go up. It assumes that players do that 2/3 of the time. It does not take account of a player who deliberately plays a shot that he knows is 'not really on'.

It would be difficult to build a rating system which took into account the proportion of left handed slicers or hookers and right handed hookers and slicers of different handicap profiles who actually play the course. If the rating was 'biased' for right handed slicers, what would the rating be for left handed slicers playing the course in a open competition.
If players who have an extreme shape consistently have problems on their 'home' course it will be reflected in their handicap index. But in my experience most manage to adapt.

This may be thought of as a deficiency but I can't think of a workable alternative.
 

AussieKB

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Messages
851
Location
Australia
Visit site
We had a 47 handicapper win today, that really gladdens my heart not, I know we all have to start some where, but to be given this many shots is a joke in my opinion.
 

LincolnShep

Head Pro
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
946
Visit site
We had a 47 handicapper win today, that really gladdens my heart not, I know we all have to start some where, but to be given this many shots is a joke in my opinion.

What's the complaint? Do you have a problem with the player, or the organisers?

Should players with 17 handicaps be banned from competitions in case they beat someone off +3?

Handicap comps are won by players with handicaps.
 

AussieKB

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Messages
851
Location
Australia
Visit site
No problem then, let's raise handicaps to 100......then everyone will be happy.

just a question though, what was max handicap when you started ?

it was 24 for me....then went to 27 then 36 now 54......

hey don't get lessons we will just give you more handicap so you can win,
sounds like at school now, no winners just medals for competing
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
3,018
Location
Bristol
Visit site
No problem then, let's raise handicaps to 100......then everyone will be happy.

just a question though, what was max handicap when you started ?

it was 24 for me....then went to 27 then 36 now 54......

hey don't get lessons we will just give you more handicap so you can win,
sounds like at school now, no winners just medals for competing
Handicaps are about inclusivity, and enabling players of different abilities to compete with one another on an equal footing.
Handicaps are not about winning, or favouring better players. If you are entering handicap competitions thinking otherwise, and treating them as anything other than a level-odds sweepstake or just a bit of competitive fun, far more often than not you are going to come away disappointed.
 

LincolnShep

Head Pro
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
946
Visit site
No problem then, let's raise handicaps to 100......then everyone will be happy.

just a question though, what was max handicap when you started ?

it was 24 for me....then went to 27 then 36 now 54......

hey don't get lessons we will just give you more handicap so you can win,
sounds like at school now, no winners just medals for competing

Do you have a problem with the player, or the organisers? If it's the latter, why did you enter a comp that allows 47 handicappers to enter?
 

Captain_Black.

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2022
Messages
405
Visit site
We had a 47 handicapper win today, that really gladdens my heart not, I know we all have to start some where, but to be given this many shots is a joke in my opinion.

How about anyone over 18 H/C has their own comp?
It could be called maybe the Choppers Trophy.
1st prize - golf lessons
2nd prize - a ball retriever
3rd prize - a calculator (to add up the huge score)
 
Top