WHS doesn't work

[D-S]

I still don’t understand why this, essentially matchplay format, is needed to be made acceptable for handicapping. It is a seldom played format, there are many other opportunities for people to submit cards either mandatory or voluntary.

 

[Swango1980]

But they are'nt all bogey/par comps.

Clubs might run 1 a year. They even might do 2 a year.

They aren't doing 25 of them a year.

Did you ignore my final statement in the post you initially replied to, where I said:

"I dare not think what sort of handicaps these players might have, if their club happen to play this format quite frequently. Thankfully, we only do one a year."

But, this is not the point. I've shown that, in my case, every single of my Top 8 rounds would have a very different Score Diff if it was Par/Bogey and I simply picked up each time. Yes, assuming only one competition if Par Bogey, it may only make 0.1 to 0.4 ish to your final Index. That could start going up if your club had a few.

Of course, when WHS came into existence, the England Golf went to great effort to continually tell people they must keep playing to hole out in Stableford Comps based on CH, not PH. Because the 95% might mean they lose a shot where they'd still get it for handicap. I'd agree this is bound to make very little difference at all, as we are only talking 1 or 2 holes in a round where the shot is lost on PH, where a golfer would have to score a nett bogey of CH. But, still, the authorities still felt it was vital to ensure golfers kept playing to hole out in these cases.

So, I'd be shocked that in Par/Bogey comps, suddenly they find it completely unimportant for golfers to hole out when they can get nett bogey, where this clearly has a much bigger impact

 

[Swango1980]

I still don’t understand why this, essentially matchplay format, is needed to be made acceptable for handicapping. It is a seldom played format, there are many other opportunities for people to submit cards either mandatory or voluntary.

I'd agree.

I don't see how you can communicate to all golfers that they should keep looking to hole out, even if they can't tie the hole. The competition format basically permits a ball to be picked up when you have a loss, so naturally that is what many golfers will do.

 

[wjemather]

Can we please stop pretending that continuing to hole out until nett double bogey is reached with reference to Course Handicap is a difficult concept to grasp?

 

[Wabinez]

Did you ignore my final statement in the post you initially replied to, where I said:

"I dare not think what sort of handicaps these players might have, if their club happen to play this format quite frequently. Thankfully, we only do one a year."

But, this is not the point. I've shown that, in my case, every single of my Top 8 rounds would have a very different Score Diff if it was Par/Bogey and I simply picked up each time. Yes, assuming only one competition if Par Bogey, it may only make 0.1 to 0.4 ish to your final Index. That could start going up if your club had a few.

Of course, when WHS came into existence, the England Golf went to great effort to continually tell people they must keep playing to hole out in Stableford Comps based on CH, not PH. Because the 95% might mean they lose a shot where they'd still get it for handicap. I'd agree this is bound to make very little difference at all, as we are only talking 1 or 2 holes in a round where the shot is lost on PH, where a golfer would have to score a nett bogey of CH. But, still, the authorities still felt it was vital to ensure golfers kept playing to hole out in these cases.

So, I'd be shocked that in Par/Bogey comps, suddenly they find it completely unimportant for golfers to hole out when they can get nett bogey, where this clearly has a much bigger impact

You know what, you’re right.

It’s a serious issue that needs to be sorted immediately /s

 

[Swango1980]

You know what, you’re right.

It’s a serious issue that needs to be sorted immediately /s

Thanks for finally seeing the point

 

[rosecott]

You know what, you’re right.

It’s a serious issue that needs to be sorted immediately /s

I don't think he does irony.

 

[Swango1980]

I don't think he does irony.

ohh, I do.

But if someone can't see a clear difference in Score Differentials when you spell them out clearly, then the irony from that person holds little credit

 

[Whereditgo]

The point is no one is playing Bogey format on a weekly, fortnightly or even monthly basis, just from the replies on this thread it is pretty clear it's a once a year, or never event. So poor scores in the once a year event are just not going to impact on anyones HI.

There isn't a problem to fix here

 

[rulefan]

The point is no one is playing Bogey format on a weekly, fortnightly or even monthly basis, just from the replies on this thread it is pretty clear it's a once a year, or never event. So poor scores in the once a year event are just not going to impact on anyones HI.

There isn't a problem to fix here

A clear statement from one of the National Authorities would be nice to have - but very unlikely to change anyone's HI.

 

[wjemather]

A clear statement from one of the National Authorities would be nice to have - but very unlikely to change anyone's HI.

Sorry, a clear statement about what exactly??

 

[Swango1980]

The point is no one is playing Bogey format on a weekly, fortnightly or even monthly basis, just from the replies on this thread it is pretty clear it's a once a year, or never event. So poor scores in the once a year event are just not going to impact on anyones HI.

There isn't a problem to fix here

That is fair enough. I agree, it is very likely going to make a big difference in 99.9% of cases.

But, there is a problem. In the sense that, I think we'd all agree that IF par/bogey competitions were played more frequently, there would be a significant change to players handicaps, for players choosing to pocket the ball after nett par is no longer possible. So, how many Par/Bogey competitions would be acceptable on a players record, before people would say there is a problem (Note, even if 1 score differential is wrong on some players record, many people have kittens and ensure the handicap sec addresses it)

I can speak for the hundreds of golf clubs up and down the land. But, it isn't impossible that one or two might just play this format more regularly than most. Maybe they even have a little regular Thursday morning roll up for members, playing Par /Bogey format. maybe there are a few golfers that can only play Thursdays, and so many, if not all of their rounds are actually Par/Bogey rounds. If that happened to be my situation, rather than an Index of 9.1, I'd be up towards 11.7. This would give me a course handicap at my place of 15 rather than 12

 

[rosecott]

Can we please stop pretending that continuing to hole out until nett double bogey is reached with reference to Course Handicap is a difficult concept to grasp?

I could not agree more. What seems to have been lost in the recent discussion on Bogey competitions is that the nett double bogey adjustment applies to all forms of strokeplay - which includes stableford..

 

[Backache]

Can we please stop pretending that continuing to hole out until nett double bogey is reached with reference to Course Handicap is a difficult concept to grasp?

As a concept it might appear easy but that is presuming that people have adequately grasped Course Handicap, which with the myriad of other handicaps that are now or have recently been used such as index, playing and competition I am sure that a number of people don't know what the course handicap is.

 

[Swango1980]

As a concept it might appear easy but that is presuming that people have adequately grasped Course Handicap, which with the myriad of other handicaps that are now or have recently been used such as index, playing and competition I am sure that a number of people don't know what the course handicap is.

They'll know what their course handicap is, well as clearly as they would in a bog standard Stableford competition

But, in Par/Bogey competitions, I'm sure there will be many golfers that will simply pick their ball up once they cannot score in the competition. I wouldn't be surprised if most golfers focus on their competition scoring during a competition, rather than what they need to do for handicap purposes.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Is the R&A's handicap system the same as the USGA's?
I turn in scores for handicap,
but then I NEVER play in our club's formal events
except for one member-guest.

Then I'm just reciprocating a member-guest to which I'm invited
and which sometimes represents my only round of the season away from our club.

I play weekday mornings with other decrepit geriatrics like myself.
We meet at the club for breakfast and then off we go.
Essentially, it's socializing with one's friends out in the fresh air
while they're still on this side of the grass.

There are different ways and levels to love this game, obviously.

I'm a bit jealous that although you guys are north of me,
your winters are mild enough to play golf.
It's pretty much an April through October game in NEW England.

 

[rulefan]

Sorry, a clear statement about what exactly??

What specific score to enter in net/bogey. There shouldn't be an 'or'.

 

[AussieKB]

Just talked to the Wife in OZ, she is not happy, played today in rain (yippee we need it) and had 31 points off 19 handicap and went out point 7, told her welcome to OZ HS,
add another person who does not like it.

 

[Steven Rules]

Just talked to the Wife in OZ, she is not happy, played today in rain (yippee we need it) and had 31 points off 19 handicap and went out point 7, told her welcome to OZ HS,
add another person who does not like it.

You've lost me. I fail to see the link between having 31 points, playing off 19, and not liking the system.

And what is it about her experience with the Australian handicapping system that caused you to 'welcome' her to it?

 

[jim8flog]

Is the R&A's handicap system the same as the USGA's?
I turn in scores for handicap,
but then I NEVER play in our club's formal events
except for one member-guest.

Then I'm just reciprocating a member-guest to which I'm invited
and which sometimes represents my only round of the season away from our club.

I play weekday mornings with other decrepit geriatrics like myself.
We meet at the club for breakfast and then off we go.
Essentially, it's socializing with one's friends out in the fresh air
while they're still on this side of the grass.

There are different ways and levels to love this game, obviously.

I'm a bit jealous that although you guys are north of me,
your winters are mild enough to play golf.
It's pretty much an April through October game in NEW England.

The essential difference for the UK is that we are not required to submit a card for handicap purposes every time we play. If we want a score to count for handicap we either have to play in a formal competition or sign before going out to say we are submitting a card for handicap purposes (called a General Play score here) and the card has to be scores as if it is a competition round i.e either ball holed out* or hole score recorded as not completed (NR) if a hole is not stared for a valid reason it can be recorded as such

* We are not allowed 'most likely score'