WHS doesn't work

[woofers]

Perhaps not, but work relating to the updates started last year so other issues will undoubtedly have been taking a back seat to that since then.

Yes, but it’s irritating that something that did work now doesn’t.

 

[wjemather]

I just saw this on the EG Facebook group. Any idea how clubs can access this sort of info if they aren’t on the Facebook group? I haven’t seen any direct mailings to clubs or counties, have I missed something?
Also how can clubs resend scores at 85% if all they are being asked to do is set up the comp as normal and ‘let the computer do the rest’? Isn’t this an issue that needs to be tackled between the ISVs and Dotgolf?

Following was from England Golf

We are reaching out to clarify the process for sending four-ball-better-ball scores to DotGolf. We are aware there may be some inconsistencies in how ISVs are calculating and processing four-ball-better-ball scores. To ensure accuracy and consistency across the board, we would like to provide clear guidance and take the opportunity to clarify previous communications.

The calculation method for ISVs to process four-ball-better-ball scores is based on 85% of the Course Handicap. ISVs can then submit these scores to DotGolf for further processing, where DotGolf will calculate the four-ball-better-ball scores using the unrestricted course handicap at 100%.

This clarification aims to streamline the process and eliminate any discrepancies that may arise due to differing calculation methods.

For all four-ball-better scores posted since April 1 2024, please resend us the scores at 85% for DotGolf to process and recalculate.

This was a comms sent by EG/dotgolf to ISVs. Some ISVs have shared it with their customers. One of those customers has shared it on Facebook without context.

 

[D-S]

This was a comms sent by EG/dotgolf to ISVs. Some ISVs have shared it with their customers. One of those customers has shared it on Facebook without context.

Thank you for that, it makes sense. It would have been good for EG to mention that on their own Facebook page and to stop replies to something that potentially will cause yet more confusion.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What prompted club to do this. I can't suspect they are simply thinking "organised comp, you must now put cards in". Only because if that was the logic, would they not ask all roll ups to have cards put in?

There may be members unhappy. But, on flip side, could there be other members that have complained cards were not being submitted. In my experience, some members get annoyed that a handful of golfers play roll ups regular, often score well but never put a card in. So, they moan and complain, and that may prompt the club to instruct all golfers to submit scores, making it fair for all.

Our club have had roll ups on Tuesday and Thursday for years. For the last few years, scores are now entered for handicaps, comp set up using Club V1. Some moaned at time. Roll ups have never been so popular as they are now. Members get used to it. I actually think it publicises Roll Ups very well also, as all members get a notification when results posted

Tee booking was introduced at the club during pandemic and our rollup was provided with a reserved set of tee times on Saturday morning. Prior to booking we all just turned up for 10am for a draw of four balls, then made our way to the tee in our four balls, putting our fourball ball in the chute along with any not in the rollup. Most non-rolluppers knew when the rollup went off and so tended to avoid us.

With WHS guidance on rounds for which cards should be submitted; tee booking and usually 24+ turning up the club assessed the rollup as an organised competition and so one for which we should submit cards. We pushed back hard against that and the club relented - letting us continue to play social with gimmies and so not WHS acceptable.

But the club has also received an increasing level of complaint from members who want to play Saturday am but not in the rollup, and times are difficult to get. They don’t see why the rollup group should have preferential and priority access to a set of tee times (usually 6-8) from 10:30am. After all the rollup is social golf just like what they want to play - rollup players don’t submit cards so why should they get priority booking.

There was no element of handicap ‘manipulation’ being suggested - the members who play in the rollup are in general all very active playing in medals and other club comps.

The club has consequently felt the need to reduce the number of rollup reserved tee times and push us later in the morning. Indeed the club was under pressure to scrap our reservation altogether - but it has resisted these calls. But in doing that they feel it appropriate to require us to make 1:4 weeks acceptable for WHS…thereby changing the nature of the rollup from social to organised.

Plus it means that some weeks the reserved times will not be able to accommodate all who wish to play - previously that was never an issue - and it will not be able to accommodate and introduce new members…for which the rollup was renowned - indeed used by the club for introductory purposes. Pity.

 

[rulie]

Tee booking was introduced at the club during pandemic and our rollup was provided with a reserved set of tee times on Saturday morning. Prior to booking we all just turned up for 10am for a draw of four balls, then made our way to the tee in our four balls, putting our fourball ball in the chute along with any not in the rollup. Most non-rolluppers knew when the rollup went off and so tended to avoid us.

With WHS guidance on rounds for which cards should be submitted; tee booking and usually 24+ turning up the club assessed the rollup as an organised competition and so one for which we should submit cards. We pushed back hard against that and the club relented - letting us continue to play social with gimmies and so not WHS acceptable.

But the club has also received an increasing level of complaint from members who want to play Saturday am but not in the rollup, and times are difficult to get. They don’t see why the rollup group should have preferential and priority access to a set of tee times (usually 6-8) from 10:30am. After all the rollup is social golf just like what they want to play - rollup players don’t submit cards so why should they get priority booking.

There was no element of handicap ‘manipulation’ being suggested - the members who play in the rollup are in general all very active playing in medals and other club comps.

The club has consequently felt the need to reduce the number of rollup reserved tee times and push us later in the morning. Indeed the club was under pressure to scrap our reservation altogether - but it has resisted these calls. But in doing that they feel it appropriate to require us to make 1:4 weeks acceptable for WHS…thereby changing the nature of the rollup from social to organised.

Plus it means that some weeks the reserved times will not be able to accommodate all who wish to play - previously that was never an issue - and it will not be able to accommodate and introduce new members…for which the rollup was renowned - indeed used by the club for introductory purposes. Pity.

Welcome to our world! We have 20-24 guys who play every Saturday morning, without any accommodation from the club. All of us get on our computers and book times for Saturday mornings. We usually end up with 3 or 4 more times than we need, and cancel those we don’t need. Other members have come to know the times that we want and book around us. We follow all the club booking rules, so nobody complains.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Welcome to our world! We have 20-24 guys who play every Saturday morning, without any accommodation from the club. All of us get on our computers and book times for Saturday mornings. We usually end up with 3 or 4 more times than we need, and cancel those we don’t need. Other members have come to know the times that we want and book around us. We follow all the club booking rules, so nobody complains.

We still have our reservation but the tee times are trimmed down early in the week to the minimum number required for entrants registered to release tee times not required at that point.

 

[Swango1980]

It's an instruction of WHS

It is. But the reason I asked is that they don't seem to be asking for all roll ups to have cards submitted. If they were purely following the official advice, I'd have expected them to:

• Request all roll up competition scores
• Done it earlier, as the request is nothing new

Which is why I thought they might have been prompted by a few complaints my members

 

[Deleted member 29109]

It is. But the reason I asked is that they don't seem to be asking for all roll ups to have cards submitted. If they were purely following the official advice, I'd have expected them to:

• Request all roll up competition scores
• Done it earlier, as the request is nothing new

Which is why I thought they might have been prompted by a few complaints my members

Because management are dealing with 2 groups who are complaining at them, so are trying to find a middle ground to save themselves a load of hassle.

 

[Swango1980]

Because management are dealing with 2 groups who are complaining at them, so are trying to find a middle ground to save themselves a load of hassle.

That was my thinking as well, as to what might have prompted this. On one hand, we can talk about golfers who are spitting their dummy out about being asked to submit scores. But, on the other hand, there are golfers complaining about bandits being in the roll ups and not getting cuts.

So, I wouldn't worry about the ones who don't want to submit scores. If they don't want to play and put in a score, don't play. Let the roll ups be for people, who are competing using their handicaps, be used to update handicap records. All this "no gimmes makes it slow play" is rubbish. The groups I play in never go any faster when gimmes are allowed. If it is a gimme, is is pretty much just as easy to knock it in back handed in a second

 

[Crow]

Played in a 4BBB Stableford today, me and my partner scored 44 points.

If I'm reading the new WHS instructions correctly, if one or both of us scores on 9 holes or more then we can potentially be cut.

My partner scored on 10 and I scored on 8 so does that mean only he can be cut?

I ask as while he scored 21 points on 10 holes, I scored 23 points on 8 holes, seems a bit of a failing if he gets cut and I don't.

 

[Orikoru]

Played in a 4BBB Stableford today, me and my partner scored 44 points.

If I'm reading the new WHS instructions correctly, if one or both of us scores on 9 holes or more then we can potentially be cut.

My partner scored on 10 and I scored on 8 so does that mean only he can be cut?

I ask as while he scored 21 points on 10 holes, I scored 23 points on 8 holes, seems a bit of a failing if he gets cut and I don't.

Surely they can't cut you based on your 10 best holes from a round of 18 if the other 8 holes are unknown?? Or is that not what you were saying?

 

[Crow]

Surely they can't cut you based on your 10 best holes from a round of 18 if the other 8 holes are unknown?? Or is that not what you were saying?

That's how I understand the new WHS rules work.

 

[Orikoru]

That's how I understand the new WHS rules work.

But that's mental. When they said 4BBB scores can count I assumed that it meant if the whole or majority of the scorecard was actually filled in for that player. i.e. you record their score for each hole not just the holes where they've scored for the team.

 

[clubchamp98]

Surely they can't cut you based on your 10 best holes from a round of 18 if the other 8 holes are unknown?? Or is that not what you were saying?

Yes they can.
Even if you have a few mares on a couple of holes they give you a score based on your partners score.

WHS madness.

 

[Crow]

But that's mental. When they said 4BBB scores can count I assumed that it meant if the whole or majority of the scorecard was actually filled in for that player. i.e. you record their score for each hole not just the holes where they've scored for the team.

I could be wrong of course...

 

[GG26]

Played in a 4BBB Stableford today, me and my partner scored 44 points.

If I'm reading the new WHS instructions correctly, if one or both of us scores on 9 holes or more then we can potentially be cut.

My partner scored on 10 and I scored on 8 so does that mean only he can be cut?

I ask as while he scored 21 points on 10 holes, I scored 23 points on 8 holes, seems a bit of a failing if he gets cut and I don't.

That’s right, only someone that has scored on at least nine holes gets cut in betterball, where the team scores 42 points or more. There is a system where they work out the score on the other holes.

 

[Orikoru]

Yes they can.
Even if you have a few mares on a couple of holes they give you a score based on your partners score.

WHS madness.

What the hell?? That's just complete fabrication. I might have made the same score as him, or I might have carved two drives out of bounds.

 

[clubchamp98]

But that's mental. When they said 4BBB scores can count I assumed that it meant if the whole or majority of the scorecard was actually filled in for that player. i.e. you record their score for each hole not just the holes where they've scored for the team.

It’s designed to stop bandits.
But catches genuine golfers having a good day.

 

[clubchamp98]

What the hell?? That's just complete fabrication. I might have made the same score as him, or I might have carved two drives out of bounds.

Exactly .
There has been a big discussion about this on another thread.( can’t remember which one)

 

[Crow]

It’s designed to stop bandits.
But catches genuine golfers having a good day.

It's crazy though, I scored more points than my PP but only he gets cut!