WHS doesn't work
- Thread starter Captain_Black.
- Start date
Crow
Crow Person
I see the method, but I still think it's a big fail in that l scored 23 points to my partners 21 points, yet only he can get cut as his scores were recorded on 10 holes to my 8.
D-S
Well-known member
If you matched one of his scores on ‘his’ 10 and put that on the card then your score would have been counting. If there are two identical scores on one hole the software can’t guess which one counts so both do.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
They might put a SD on his record, but 21 points on his best 10 holes is unexceptionable and his ensuing SD might even be higher than his HI.
The "expected scores" calculation for his other 8 holes remains a mystery, however. (Shan't bother with the Toyah photo this time)
The "expected scores" calculation for his other 8 holes remains a mystery, however. (Shan't bother with the Toyah photo this time)
D-S
Well-known member
It would only be an acceptable score on his record if it scales up 36 points or more, then this score which is achieved using 85% playing allowance will be increased to 100% so in most cases it will be higher than 36 points.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I think most golfers think the basic premise of somebody else’s score affecting their handicap is wrong.
I havnt met one in person who thinks it’s a good idea.
I don’t remember any poll on the implementation of this !
We’re golfers consulted?
I havnt met one in person who thinks it’s a good idea.
I don’t remember any poll on the implementation of this !
We’re golfers consulted?
Wabinez
Journeyman Pro
Why should they be consulted? Would lead to nothing ever changing.
Got to remember this place is an echo chamber. For every one poster on here outraged at something happening, there are thousands who don’t care and will just play as normal.
wjemather
Well-known member
Yes, they were consulted. They thought that great scores in 4bbb comps should be accounted for by the handicap system.
wjemather
Well-known member
Expected Scores are not used with 4BBB.
There is no mystery at all as to what the scaled up score would be (see #3501).
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
The mystery being given 1.5 points for hitting two shots out of bounds from the tee and the same on another hole where you took 5 shots to get out of a bunker on a par 3.
Both clearly blobs, but your score is based on your partner's score. I see a deep flaw in this.
Handicap reduction based on partner's score, where player actually played higher than 8th best score.
D-S
Well-known member
There is the other side to this, if you birdie a hole with no shot and get 3 points but your partner pars it with 2 shots he gets 4 points and, as your score is lower, you only get 1.5 points.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
How do we rate this method of assigning an individual SD for a betterball score?
Outstanding
Good
Requires improvement
Inadequate
Outstanding
Good
Requires improvement
Inadequate
wjemather
Well-known member
There's no mystery though. 4BBB is not an individual game; partners affect each others play and scores.
The trigger criteria are met very infrequently, and only an exceptional SD is going to effect a significant change in HI.
As such, only players submitting virtually no individual scores but playing lots of 4BBB, or returning an exceptional score, are going to see this affect their handicap.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
How so?
A SD needs only to beat 8th best by a few shots to effect a significant change to HI. Doesn't need to be exceptional.
And I foresee betterball scores affecting any pair who score well between them not merely infrequent submitters of individual scores.
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nickjdavis
Head Pro
If the trigger criteria are only met very infrequently, then perhaps this is not the right tool to crack the issue that they are trying to address?
Outstanding I would say, statistically.
That it can be done is impressive.
That nobody understands it, that it goes entirely counter to the average golfers intuition of what should change ones handicap, and that as a modification whose marginal benefit to handicap accuracy at best, doesnt outweigh the price being paid in further credibility loss to WHS, is its failure.
Like WHS in the first place, its just wasnt needed.
wjemather
Well-known member
Shifting the HI by a few tenths, or even by a little over 1, is not significant (because handicapping can never be that accurate), and only an exceptional score can do more than that.
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wjemather
Well-known member
It will only significantly impact players who predominantly play 4bbb, and consistently score well, while posting few individual scores. These are precisely the players this is intended to affect.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Exactly, 4BBB doesn't deal with Expected Scores. It is worse than that.
It uses Unexpected Scores
I played a medal today. Some good holes, some bad holes. If only I could have replaced my bad scores with something similar to what another person in the group scored. I reckon I'd have done OK
wjemather
Well-known member
The 4bbb mechanism actually uses verifiable scores.
I assume you weren't breaching the rules of individual stroke play, so your medal wasn't a "team game" where your playing partner(s) was directly affecting how you played or scored. As such, it isn't really relevant.
