WHS doesn't work

[Swango1980]

I know you’re right but the autistic mind doesn’t work like that. It gets stuck on things that others see as silly or unimportant but for the individual it’s like life or death. Part of it is being unable to embrace change, we are creatures of habit and if that habit is messed with, it’s incredibly upsetting and disruptive to our lives.

The way I saw CONGU, was that it was based on your best or potential (which is more ability based). WHS is not based on your best, it is based on the average of the 40% best scores from your most recent.

I suppose if we had started with WHS, then changed to old system (I.e. it becomes the new system), then the autistic mind would struggle with that.

As you said, someone with autism is very much a creature of habit, so any change will have a negative impact. Regardless on whether the new system is better or worse.

 

[Golfist]

I suppose if we had started with WHS, then changed to old system (I.e. it becomes the new system), then the autistic mind would struggle with that.

As you said, someone with autism is very much a creature of habit, so any change will have a negative impact. Regardless on whether the new system is better or worse.

I can’t answer that but you’re probably right, I would have struggled with any change because I would have built habits to make it work for me. However, change is similar to new, I had no issues with the old system when I first started but I think I would have struggled and likely walked away from golf very early on with WHS because of the rounds dropping off. My mind just can’t accept that.

 

[Golfnut1957]

How about keeping a record of all your scores on an Excel spreadsheet, and keep your own record and/or handicap. You can just keep the WHS one in the background, only focusing on the handicap index for competition purposes, and your main focus can be on your forever record.

I'm sorry if I'm over simplifying things, obviously from the outside these things can be difficult to relate to.

 

[wjemather]

The way I saw CONGU, was that it was based on your best or potential (which is more ability based). WHS is not based on your best, it is based on the average of the 40% best scores from your most recent.

CONGU UHS only worked close to that way (potential best) for higher handicappers. It was very much not that way for cat 1 players at most courses.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I do not believe Golfist can successfully distract himself with alternatives from the actual reality that he knows is occurring as a cure to the anxiety of that reality.
This is what it is to live with autistic spectrum anxiety. It does not go away while the cause of the anxiety remains.
He will have learnt or created coping strategies of his own for various things in order to get through the days and weeks, if he is typical of all autistic spectrum people I have worked with.

I hope he will find something that works for him in order to be able to enjoy golf again. I have no idea what that might be, because I have never met him.
But I hope, most sincerely, that he finds a way.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I think you are making some rather sweeping generalisations about how how people with autism and ADHD see and perceive things.

Having ADHD myself, I don’t mind WHS, I actually think it’s a better system than the old system.

The scores you are worried about disappearing aren’t really disappearing, they are still there on your scoring record.

Personally, I don’t look at my scores. Before any given round, I couldn’t tell you what score will be dropping off. I’ve found it helps me to play better if I completely detach myself from my score and thinking about my handicap, under the old system I was obsessed with getting it as low as possible. Now I couldn’t care less. I don’t add scores up as I go round, I don’t count up after 9 or work out stableford points if playing that format.

All I focus on now on hitting the best shot I can one at a time. It’s not easy, and I still do think about shooting a particularly score as I’m going round.

In the past I would agonise over a round for hours or days after. Now I spend a short time after my round thinking about it. I make a note of some good shots, some poor shots and what I think caused them. What I could do better next time. Then I let that round go.

 

[Golfist]

I think you are making some rather sweeping generalisations about how how people with autism and ADHD see and perceive things.

Having ADHD myself, I don’t mind WHS, I actually think it’s a better system than the old system.

The scores you are worried about disappearing aren’t really disappearing, they are still there on your scoring record.

Personally, I don’t look at my scores. Before any given round, I couldn’t tell you what score will be dropping off. I’ve found it helps me to play better if I completely detach myself from my score and thinking about my handicap, under the old system I was obsessed with getting it as low as possible. Now I couldn’t care less. I don’t add scores up as I go round, I don’t count up after 9 or work out stableford points if playing that format.

All I focus on now on hitting the best shot I can one at a time. It’s not easy, and I still do think about shooting a particularly score as I’m going round.

In the past I would agonise over a round for hours or days after. Now I spend a short time after my round thinking about it. I make a note of some good shots, some poor shots and what I think caused them. What I could do better next time. Then I let that round go.

Understood, I can only speak for myself, of course. It sounds like you have your condition under control and that’s brilliant.

 

[Slab]

I can’t answer that but you’re probably right, I would have struggled with any change because I would have built habits to make it work for me. However, change is similar to new, I had no issues with the old system when I first started but I think I would have struggled and likely walked away from golf very early on with WHS because of the rounds dropping off. My mind just can’t accept that.

I’ve no idea if what I’ll say is relevant or can have any bearing for your golf enjoyment but under the old system I remember I used to care about getting my handicap down but now my sole focus is simply shooting a good gross score. I don’t rate my golf by my Handicap Index (it’s still pleasing to see it come down and annoying when it goes up)

Even in a stableford comp I only care about my gross score (I can’t control what anyone else shoots or how many points they get or what index they are anyway) I don’t even care how many points I’d score in a stableford comp, all I know is if a shoot an XX gross I’m happy/unhappy with my game

 

[Golfnut1957]

A question for all of you WHS experts. Since having Club V1 installed, we have had access to a live leaderboard for most competitions. At the beginning of this season the club announced that it would be turned off during play, effectively doing away with it, this is a trial for a month.

What they didn't say was why. I mentioned this to a couple of people who might have known, but their answers were vague and woolly. I have emailed the club but have as yet not received a response, and think it is because they don't know the answer.

Furthermore, I was trawling through the minutes of the Competions Committee meetings and found reference to this subject. It was regarding a seminar that was held by Durham County where the attendees were informed that E.G. recommend that live leaderboards should be turned off during play, but the attendee couldn't remember the reason why this should be.

My question is. Do any of you club handicap secretaries know the reason for the recommendation?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I can sympathise with you but one of the WHS aims was to try to get players into the mindset that you play a round and enter your scores whether it's a comp or General Play and just let your handicap take care of itself.

I recognise that it may not help you but, with WHS, a handicap is what it is and shouldn't be a source of anguish.

And is totally at odds with the ingrained mindset in the UK countries, that will take decades to change, PCC is a joke (especially not having non-counting days), GP cards are a joke, 4BBB counting is a joke, carrying 3 different handicaps is a joke, playing handicap being different at different courses is a joke, playing handicap allowances are a joke.

I play virtually exclusively competition golf all year, I rarely come across anyone who thinks its any good, folks are putting up with it but nobody likes it

 

[rulefan]

My question is. Do any of you club handicap secretaries know the reason for the recommendation?

Afraid not but my County (Yorkshire) shows the leader board.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Understood, I can only speak for myself, of course. It sounds like you have your condition under control and that’s brilliant.

I wouldn’t say under control, just I found something that works for me the majority of the time.

Very much like @Slab above. I only care about my gross score for that round and that’s it. I know it’s easy to say and very difficult to do. However, I could see how trying to think that way could help you.

As Tiger once said. He doesn’t think about being Number 1 or winning. Hit one good shot at a time and winning will take care of itself. One good tournament at a time, and being world number 1 will take care of itself.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

A question for all of you WHS experts. Since having Club V1 installed, we have had access to a live leaderboard for most competitions. At the beginning of this season the club announced that it would be turned off during play, effectively doing away with it, this is a trial for a month.

What they didn't say was why. I mentioned this to a couple of people who might have known, but their answers were vague and woolly. I have emailed the club but have as yet not received a response, and think it is because they don't know the answer.

Furthermore, I was trawling through the minutes of the Competions Committee meetings and found reference to this subject. It was regarding a seminar that was held by Durham County where the attendees were informed that E.G. recommend that live leaderboards should be turned off during play, but the attendee couldn't remember the reason why this should be.

My question is. Do any of you club handicap secretaries know the reason for the recommendation?

Not everyone will enter their score every hole. And clearly to stop people cheating.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Not everyone will enter their score every hole. And clearly to stop people cheating.

I can't give the official answer but this was the reason the manager turned it off at my club. It was really aimed at Open cheats but he decided to leave it off permanently. If people had a score to aim at, some miraculously would come just under it.

A shame as it is a fun idea.

 

[wjemather]

A question for all of you WHS experts. Since having Club V1 installed, we have had access to a live leaderboard for most competitions. At the beginning of this season the club announced that it would be turned off during play, effectively doing away with it, this is a trial for a month.

What they didn't say was why. I mentioned this to a couple of people who might have known, but their answers were vague and woolly. I have emailed the club but have as yet not received a response, and think it is because they don't know the answer.

Furthermore, I was trawling through the minutes of the Competions Committee meetings and found reference to this subject. It was regarding a seminar that was held by Durham County where the attendees were informed that E.G. recommend that live leaderboards should be turned off during play, but the attendee couldn't remember the reason why this should be.

My question is. Do any of you club handicap secretaries know the reason for the recommendation?

EG have live scoring and live leaderboards turned on during their own tournaments, so seem unlikely they would contradict that for everyone else. Maybe the suggestion was in response to a specific situation, and the context/detail/reasoning has been lost along the way?

Anyway, I see no reason for turning them off other than fear. Fear of cheating by later starters who know what they need to beat; fear that a great early score will trigger withdrawals from later starters who don't see the point of starting; etc.

 

[rulefan]

I can't give the official answer but this was the reason the manager turned it off at my club. It was really aimed at Open cheats but he decided to leave it off permanently. If people had a score to aim at, some miraculously would come just under it.

A shame as it is a fun idea.

Presumably the manager took no other action to prevent cheating. Or did he believe all players who bettered the first score out were cheating (together with their markers)?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Presumably the manager took no other action to prevent cheating. Or did he believe all players who bettered the first score out were cheating (together with their markers)?

There were specific groups playing opens, 4BBB, who always went out towards the end, always played together, frequently managed to score just enough when a live leaderboard was running or early scores made the front running and were in before they went out. It was the same group / groups, too much of a coincidence. One of those where clubs know what is happening but it is very hard to prove it. The simplest option to start with was to stop them having visibility of the scores.

They could have ensured that each 4BBB group was drawn but that would not work up here, people would not enter (we have been used to playing together, 4 mates having a day out)

The fun of having the live leaderboard did not outweigh the downside, in his opinion. I understood his view.

 

[Swango1980]

A question for all of you WHS experts. Since having Club V1 installed, we have had access to a live leaderboard for most competitions. At the beginning of this season the club announced that it would be turned off during play, effectively doing away with it, this is a trial for a month.

What they didn't say was why. I mentioned this to a couple of people who might have known, but their answers were vague and woolly. I have emailed the club but have as yet not received a response, and think it is because they don't know the answer.

Furthermore, I was trawling through the minutes of the Competions Committee meetings and found reference to this subject. It was regarding a seminar that was held by Durham County where the attendees were informed that E.G. recommend that live leaderboards should be turned off during play, but the attendee couldn't remember the reason why this should be.

My question is. Do any of you club handicap secretaries know the reason for the recommendation?

We have the live leaderboard on at our club, for club competitions. I pretty sure there is no indication late starters may cheat, but then if we are talking regular club comps, maybe it would become obvious if a few late starters always seemed to get very good scores (and their handicap would keep coming down anyway).

It is a sad reflection on a small proportion of golfers that such things do need to turn off, as cheating is suspected. I'd I wouldn't be surprised if this is more strongly suspected in Open competitions, when prizes are good and golfers can set off into the sunset, without ever having to answer to the Committee members at that club

 

[woofers]

All very interesting but absolutely nothing to do with ‘WHS not working’.
(For what it’s worth some open events have ‘live leaderboard scoring’ but only up to say, the 15th hole, Mizuno Golf Pairs).

 

[rulefan]

There were specific groups playing opens, 4BBB, who always went out towards the end, always played together, frequently managed to score just enough when a live leaderboard was running or early scores made the front running and were in before they went out. It was the same group / groups, too much of a coincidence. One of those where clubs know what is happening but it is very hard to prove it. The simplest option to start with was to stop them having visibility of the scores.

They could have ensured that each 4BBB group was drawn but that would not work up here, people would not enter (we have been used to playing together, 4 mates having a day out)

The fun of having the live leaderboard did not outweigh the downside, in his opinion. I understood his view.

We had a similar situation some years ago with Open 4BBBs. We found certain groups from a couple of specific clubs were winning an unlikely number of times. Coincidentally we found a number of other local clubs were having the same problem. We all agreed to refuse entries from the 'problem' clubs and very informally told the their secs why. We no longer have the problem but still run leader boards. We took the 'block' off a couple off years later. I don't know what action (if any) the problem clubs took.