WHS doesn't work

[Rlburnside]

Going to be some fun for tomorrows competition, with the new changes that came in April my course h/c has come down one shot.

Nobody at club new about changes or I should say haven’t bothered to find out about changes.

I have informed our committee about changes which they were unaware of.

Does golf union not send out new course handicap sheets?

 

[wjemather]

Going to be some fun for tomorrows competition, with the new changes that came in April my course h/c has come down one shot.

Nobody at club new about changes or I should say haven’t bothered to find out about changes.

I have informed our committee about changes which they were unaware of.

Does golf union not send out new course handicap sheets?

Lots of information was sent out to clubs over many months running up to the changes. The new tables have been available via the WHS portal for months.

I suggest your club Handicap Committee needs to immediately contact their county for assistance and training.

 

[D-S]

Lots of information was sent out to clubs over many months running up to the changes. The new tables have been available via the WHS portal for months.

I suggest your club Handicap Committee needs to immediately contact their county for assistance and training.

I would hazard a guess that the county has already offered and given advice to all their club’s committees, EG have pumped out lots of info to committees for onward transmission to their members. Any committee that is unaware is already failing.
You can lead a horse to water…………

 

[Rlburnside]

Lots of information was sent out to clubs over many months running up to the changes. The new tables have been available via the WHS portal for months.

I suggest your club Handicap Committee needs to immediately contact their county for assistance and training.

Yes there’s plenty of information that’s been sent which I’ve read,can I access the new table for my club if so how do I go about it.

 

[wjemather]

Yes there’s plenty of information that’s been sent which I’ve read,can I access the new table for my club if so how do I go about it.

Access to the portal is (routinely) restricted to club management and handicap committees.

 

[Rlburnside]

Access to the portal is (routinely) restricted to club management and handicap committees.

Ok thanks I know the committee member that works with handicaps I’ll speak with him in morning.

 

[wjemather]

I would hazard a guess that the county has already offered and given advice to all their club’s committees, EG have pumped out lots of info to committees for onward transmission to their members. Any committee that is unaware is already failing.
You can lead a horse to water…………

Unfortunately, EG and county comms generally goes to club management, so is not guaranteed to reach the relevant people.

 

[LizAig]

Going to be some fun for tomorrows competition, with the new changes that came in April my course h/c has come down one shot.

Nobody at club new about changes or I should say haven’t bothered to find out about changes.

I have informed our committee about changes which they were unaware of.

Does golf union not send out new course handicap sheets?

England Golf has a deal to get boards for free (if you choose cheapest option). Clubs can also print their own new HI tables from WHS platform. EG sent out loads of info about changes and invited club reps to attend workshops _ this wasn’t just sent to club management, it went by email to people who have register their interest plus mentioned on the EG WHS page and mentioned lots of times on social media _ I’ve no idea how a full comps committee could have missed it!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

WHS? I love it. Felt pretty down after messing up back nine yesterday in April medal…playing well to 13 but got irritated with things and good golf and irritation don’t mix well…ending up four over handicap. But I look this morning and there’s a PCC of 1 and my HI went down 0.1 - to my lowest ever WHS HI.

That makes me feel a lot better. I know I can play and score well and WHS will see my HI go up…but that’s for another day. Today…WHS?

 

[Backsticks]

WHS? I love it. Felt pretty down after messing up back nine yesterday in April medal…playing well to 13 but got irritated with things and good golf and irritation don’t mix well…ending up four over handicap. But I look this morning and there’s a PCC of 1 and my HI went down 0.1 - to my lowest ever WHS HI.

That makes me feel a lot better. I know I can play and score well and WHS will see my HI go up…but that’s for another day. Today…WHS?

Thats the thing. I think the real heart of WHS - average of best 8 from 20 - is very good. It reflects your golf reasonably, is responsive, and doesnt allow vanity anchoring.

And its not that it doesnt work, but the implementation of that principle has been very very very badly implemented. Key failings being :

- it lost credibility when people realised it wasnt a world hc system, but regions still free to implement their own local versions.
World handicap system, meaning there are different systems all over the world

- the competitions computations are too complex. It doesnt matter whether the mathematics behind it is technically correct. It is just too impenetrable and offputting. We still play friendly matches just off our HI.

- a totally botched course rating calculation non inclusion, then inclusion reversal in the UK. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Yeh, WHS, but not WHS, but a bit more WHS now, but still not WHS as other regions...

- the raising of the 28hc ceiling so late in the Congu era, harmed WHS credibility, as it is a contributor, and WHS became guilty by association, with high scores. 'Guy playing off 42 had 53 points - its impossible for low men to win now!' type hysteria.

- it may well be runnable if you have paid club staff, but places an excessive work burden on club volunteers to administer it...if it is to be administered correctly. So in many cases, it isnt administered correctly. Countering that - well, you are the hc secretary, so you have a responsibility to do it, is not an answer.

- that its implementation is a mess, and that the idea that it actually isnt a WORLD handicap system (an element that seemed reasonable as a justification to change from Congu), has led everyone to ask : what was the point of all this ? What problem needed to be solved that has now backfired, giving no benefit whatsoever, and has introduced an untrusted, controversial (guys, just buy out the PCC calculation and make it open source), misunderstood, too complex to bother with system ?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Thats the thing. I think the real heart of WHS - average of best 8 from 20 - is very good. It reflects your golf reasonably, is responsive, and doesnt allow vanity anchoring.

And its not that it doesnt work, but the implementation of that principle has been very very very badly implemented. Key failings being :

- it lost credibility when people realised it wasnt a world hc system, but regions still free to implement their own local versions.
World handicap system, meaning there are different systems all over the world

- the competitions computations are too complex. It doesnt matter whether the mathematics behind it is technically correct. It is just too impenetrable and offputting. We still play friendly matches just off our HI.

- a totally botched course rating calculation non inclusion, then inclusion reversal in the UK. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Yeh, WHS, but not WHS, but a bit more WHS now, but still not WHS as other regions...

- the raising of the 28hc ceiling so late in the Congu era, harmed WHS credibility, as it is a contributor, and WHS became guilty by association, with high scores. 'Guy playing off 42 had 53 points - its impossible for low men to win now!' type hysteria.

- it may well be runnable if you have paid club staff, but places an excessive work burden on club volunteers to administer it...if it is to be administered correctly. So in many cases, it isnt administered correctly. Countering that - well, you are the hc secretary, so you have a responsibility to do it, is not an answer.

- that its implementation is a mess, and that the idea that it actually isnt a WORLD handicap system (an element that seemed reasonable as a justification to change from Congu), has led everyone to ask : what was the point of all this ? What problem needed to be solved that has now backfired, giving no benefit whatsoever, and has introduced an untrusted, controversial (guys, just buy out the PCC calculation and make it open source), misunderstood, too complex to bother with system ?

The implementation wasn’t great.

But most of what you have written is just saying lots of people have poor comprehension skills, haven’t bothered to try and understand it, aren’t intelligent enough to understand it or a combination of.

The WHS should be seen as a framework which allows for regional variations in how golf is played.

 

[Rlburnside]

England Golf has a deal to get boards for free (if you choose cheapest option). Clubs can also print their own new HI tables from WHS platform. EG sent out loads of info about changes and invited club reps to attend workshops _ this wasn’t just sent to club management, it went by email to people who have register their interest plus mentioned on the EG WHS page and mentioned lots of times on social media _ I’ve no idea how a full comps committee could have missed it!!

We’re in Scotland but same principal,plenty of information sent via the Scottish golf app to every player, I got my son to print out hi tables.

When I arrived at club I gave printout to 3 of the committee including the person that deals with the h/cs none of them knew about changes,there’s no excuse they should have read the messages and been prepared for the new season.

 

[D-S]

The implementation wasn’t great.

But most of what you have written is just saying lots of people have poor comprehension skills, haven’t bothered to try and understand it, aren’t intelligent enough to understand it or a combination of.

The WHS should be seen as a framework which allows for regional variations in how golf is played.

I agree entirely with the bit of your post in bold.

However, on the front page of the Player's Guide to WHS from EG they state:-

"The purpose of the WHS is to provide maximum enjoyment for all who play the game by enabling players of any ability, from anywhere in the world, to play and compete with others on a fair basis."

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Thing is I realised a while back, but confirmed by yesterday’s Medal knock, that I can have a poor WHS ‘acceptable’ round (I no longer think or refer to them as ‘qualifiers’) and it won’t automatically put my HI up - and that ameliorates the pain.

I know of course that a good round could see my HI go up, but that bothers me less than the impact of a bad round as with a good round, regardless of impact on HI, I have my good golf banked as a positive.

Plus, and as I did yesterday, I no longer bother recording individual stableford pts or working out my nett score - all I record is my gross. That way I don’t get my head cluttered and bothered with all the background stuff. All I do is get a ball round a course as best I can - enjoying it as much as I can - after all isn’t that what golf is all about.

And frankly I don’t much bother about inconsistencies with how it’s implemented elsewhere in the world. I just take my HI; get my PH, and get on with enjoying myself.

ETA: our medal cards yesterday had pre-printed details label affixed. The ONLY handicap information given was HI - as that is all that is required on a card for a WHS acceptable round.

My playing companion had worked out his 95% PH the old way, and I told him it could well be wrong and advised him to not bother and that I’d just entered and signed for his gross score.

 

[wjemather]

But most of what you have written is just saying lots of people have poor comprehension skills, haven’t bothered to try and understand it, aren’t intelligent enough to understand it or a combination of.

Or purposefully misunderstanding things.

 

[Backsticks]

The implementation wasn’t great.

But most of what you have written is just saying lots of people have poor comprehension skills, haven’t bothered to try and understand it, aren’t intelligent enough to understand it or a combination of.

The WHS should be seen as a framework which allows for regional variations in how golf is played.

We had a regional variation of golf handicapping - UHS.

What has WHS brought to the positive ? What problem has it addressed ?

If saying golfers need to try harder is the official response, then they have clearly failed in the design of the system. A system must be functional for its users - ideally user friendly, intuitive, with an easy learning curve that is worth the effort, and, have clear and obvious benefits to them. I think its fair to say WHS has brought no benefits whatsoever to the average golfer.

The bottom line is people see no upside. Only confusion, backtracking, and an unwelcome change.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We had a regional variation of golf handicapping - UHS.

What has WHS brought to the positive ? What problem has it addressed ?

If saying golfers need to try harder is the official response, then they have clearly failed in the design of the system. A system must be functional for its users - ideally user friendly, intuitive, with an easy learning curve that is worth the effort, and, have clear and obvious benefits to them. I think its fair to say WHS has brought no benefits whatsoever to the average golfer.

The bottom line is people see no upside. Only confusion, backtracking, and an unwelcome change.

I’ve outlined in my previous post this morning the significant upside I have found. Indeed for me WHS has defused much of the pressure I used to feel when submitting a card in a ‘qualifying’ competition.

And absolutely 100% on the @wjemather post on deliberate misunderstanding and what I consider to be confected confusion. It’s easy and very simple. I write down my gross score and next day check results and my HI.

 

[Swango1980]

We had a regional variation of golf handicapping - UHS.

What has WHS brought to the positive ? What problem has it addressed ?

If saying golfers need to try harder is the official response, then they have clearly failed in the design of the system. A system must be functional for its users - ideally user friendly, intuitive, with an easy learning curve that is worth the effort, and, have clear and obvious benefits to them. I think its fair to say WHS has brought no benefits whatsoever to the average golfer.

The bottom line is people see no upside. Only confusion, backtracking, and an unwelcome change.

To the positive? Slope, for a start.

Before WHS, I may be a member of a very tricky course, and perhaps give another member, high handicappers, 20 shots. And that may be fine. However, if we then both played a very easy and shorter course I'd still be giving them 20 shots, which would be a joke. At least with WHS and Slope, I'm probably only giving them 16 to 18 shots.

 

[rulefan]

To the positive? Slope, for a start.

Before WHS, I may be a member of a very tricky course, and perhaps give another member, high handicappers, 20 shots. And that may be fine. However, if we then both played a very easy and shorter course I'd still be giving them 20 shots, which would be a joke. At least with WHS and Slope, I'm probably only giving them 16 to 18 shots.

That and the 8/20 removing the old kneejerk reaction.

 

[Alan Clifford]

The old system was fine. I liked it. It was the story of my golfing life as opposed to current form which for a mid / high handicapper is pointless really as I can be mid 70’s one day and mid 90’s the very next day. I’m not consistent enough for current form to be a relevant marker. The main problem is those last 20 rounds, for someone like me, it’s a bit like building something that I’m especially proud of only for someone to come along and demolish it. If I have a good round coming off, I’m that anguished that I’m paralysed and can’t play. I’ll practice instead, week after week, until I feel confident that I can replicate the score coming off. I only felt confident enough twice last year to have a card in my hand. I’m paying my membership fees pretty much to have use of a practice facility. Looking at my last 20 scores, they are now spread over the last 4 years. It really has destroyed my enjoyment of my favourite hobby.

Would you be able to cope better if the system itself gave a lower weight or even discarded your 4 year old scores, regardless of whether you submitted any new cards?