WHS doesn't work

[Backache]

No. WHS is the most equitable handicap system we've ever seen.

Any alternative system would have to mean an improvement in equity, not simplicity.

I think the problem is according to the many posts here is that the theory behind it may well be equitable but the difficulty many clubs are having in operating it has resulted in a less equitable system than previously existed and a far more complex one for many golfers for whom frankly impenetrable rulings such as PCC in bad weather that never seems to result in an increase in strokes continue to irritate and baffle us.

 

[rosecott]

I think the problem is according to the many posts here is that the theory behind it may well be equitable but the difficulty many clubs are having in operating it has resulted in a less equitable system than previously existed and a far more complex one for many golfers for whom frankly impenetrable rulings such as PCC in bad weather that never seems to result in an increase in strokes continue to irritate and baffle us.

Are you suggesting that the expectation of players is bad weather = PCC of +1 or more?

Surely any misapprehensions are down to the failure of some clubs to disseminate/publicise the correct information.

 

[IanM]

I've learned more about WHS from the chat on here than anything issued from Wales Golf etc..... therein lies the problem

 

[Backache]

Are you suggesting that the expectation of players is bad weather = PCC of +1 or more?

Surely any misapprehensions are down to the failure of some clubs to disseminate/publicise the correct information.

I'm suggesting the operation of PCC should be more transparent .
If the weather is very poor it makes sense to not use the data for potential upward adjustment of handicap.You are in essence collecting data from 19 rather than 20 rounds if you use the data on a stormy day.

 

[Alan Clifford]

GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I (englandgolf.org)

G2.1/2 Scores When Stroke Play And Match Play Are Played Concurrently The Rules of Golf do not expressly prohibit the playing of a match whilst concurrently playing in a stroke play competition, but the guidance in Committee Procedures 6C (12) discourages such practice. CONGU® concurs with this view and strongly recommends Committees to ensure that their Terms of the Competition make it clear if and when such practice may be permissible. If such practice is sanctioned, the Rules of the stroke play event must prevail in order for the score to be acceptable for handicapping purposes.

OK thanks. All very strange when matchplay is different from strokeplay.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Can we all just agree that WHS is completely rubbish.

Would anyone be interested in an alternative system being set-up?

Chiddingfold don't use WHS.

 

[rosecott]

Chiddingfold don't use WHS.

Perhaps they have a vastly superior system which we have all failed to appreciate. Is there a member out there to enlighten us?

 

[rosecott]

I'm suggesting the operation of PCC should be more transparent .
If the weather is very poor it makes sense to not use the data for potential upward adjustment of handicap.You are in essence collecting data from 19 rather than 20 rounds if you use the data on a stormy day.

We live in Britain and our handicapping system recognises British weather.

 

[Backache]

We live in Britain and our handicapping system recognises British weather.

How does PCC recognise it?

 

[wjemather]

Perhaps they have a vastly superior system which we have all failed to appreciate. Is there a member out there to enlighten us?

Nope, they hark back to the "good old days" and still use the "best score" system that became defunct in 1983.
They are not affiliated to EG.

 

[wjemather]

How does PCC recognise it?

It doesn't. It recognises scoring patterns.

 

[Bdill93]

Post the specification and we can give you an answer.

The Bdill handicap system -

Everything that WHS does in the UK - removing the ability for a GP card but allowing 3 “exceptional score” entries per year if witnessed and signed for by another handicapped member and played whilst confirming to all rules of golf. Manual card must be signed and returned to the golf club on the day of play.

I’ve thought this up at 11.30pm whilst lay in bed though, so it may need some tweaking but it’s a start up concept.

 

[IanM]

Too sensible @Bdill93 , go and stand in the corner.

Chiddingfold don't use WHS.

Chidd? In Surrey? It's still 1957 there, so you'll wait a bit!

 

[jim8flog]

I'm suggesting the operation of PCC should be more transparent .
If the weather is very poor it makes sense to not use the data for potential upward adjustment of handicap.You are in essence collecting data from 19 rather than 20 rounds if you use the data on a stormy day.

Are you saying that you fully understood the calculation of the Competition SS under the UHS and that you used to perform the calculations when you knew all the scores to confirm it was correct?

 

[Backache]

Are you saying that you fully understood the calculation of the Competition SS under the UHS and that you used to perform the calculations when you knew all the scores to confirm it was correct?

When I read it I did. PCC seems black box in its output.

 

[Golfist]

sorry I do not agree.

I for one prefer the new system compared to the old

It has it failings but so did the UHS.

I’m the complete opposite, I think the old CONGU system (even though is wasn’t perfect is vastly superior to what we have now).

The new system has too many flaws. Here are just some I think are a problem:-
1.Too many shots to high handicappers.
2.Too easy to manipulate.
3.It’s supposed to be up to date but as long as you have membership at an affiliated club you can retain a handicap forever without submitting a card. I could play in a comp in five years time with my current handicap having not submitted a card in all that time, I could have got significantly better in that time. Meaning that WHS actually creates a field that could have a huge disparity between up-to-date and out-of date handicaps, a bigger disparity than CONGU would ever allow.
4. It’s a lot less fun and I find the new system actually increases my stress levels when playing.
5. The majority in the U.K. are never going to follow the model of submitting all our scores, or even most of them, which WHS really needs to work properly.

There are lots more but it makes me angry thinking about it. Since It’s come in, I play less golf, hardly any comps and I’ve lost a lot of interest in what was my favourite thing. I actually hate WHS.

 

[IanM]

Are you saying that you fully understood the calculation of the Competition SS under the UHS and that you used to perform the calculations when you knew all the scores to confirm it was correct?

I suspect few golfers did. I certainly didn't, but my perception was that I had a hunch.

PCC is not CSS. But early explanation was that it was it's replacement, so folk expected similar behaviour!

 

[Deleted member 15717]

I play less golf

Seems weird?

Just play without submitting cards. The stress levels can go down, you can enjoy it more and then if you want to play competitions then you can choose to enter them. Clubs and Competitions can write the rules to state players must have x number of scores in the past 12 months, bringing it more in line with the old system...but if you play a few competitions a year, this gets around that.


Getting angry at something you can't control seems a waste of a lot of mental energy.

 

[Golfist]

The question I would ask is - Why are secretaries processing hundreds of cards a week? There are automatic processes and the advice from County is to only check a random few cards.

The system cannot inflate handicaps quickly as the hard and soft caps slow it down and there is a limit to increases in a calendar year.

If WHS needs hard and soft caps and the 95% rule, then that should be evidence that the calculations behind it all aren’t very good and the system needs stabilisers to make it workable.

 

[Golfist]

Seems weird?

Just play without submitting cards. The stress levels can go down, you can enjoy it more and then if you want to play competitions then you can choose to enter them. Clubs and Competitions can write the rules to state players must have x number of scores in the past 12 months, bringing it more in line with the old system...but if you play a few competitions a year, this gets around that.


Getting angry at something you can't control seems a waste of a lot of mental energy.

This is exactly what I do now. Just less than I did before. I was avid comp golfer, lived for it, low handicap and practiced all week to give myself the best chance in a medal. Now, I mostly play for fun but it’s now a once a week thing as opposed to playing every night. Can’t help getting angry at it, it has completely turned how I play golf upside down and removed much of my joy.