WHS doesn't work

[Alan Clifford]

Clearly, I need a second home and membership of a second club. Don't think I will be able to convince Mrs V that this is a priority.
Permanent move to another place is a non-starter in this respect.

I have two solutions:

My English club is on chalk When we a busy in winter, the visitors from the local bogs sometimes ask if the course is wet. I reply that it is wet through and soggy but you'll think it's dry.

Second solution is 2 months in South Africa Novemberish and another two Februaryish. (note: after years of trying to save for my old age, now that old age is here, it's still difficult to comprehend the idea of doing this).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of things, our Thursday Rollup was until WHS the most popular rollup in the club, regularly 60+ playing, a majority being seniors it has to be said. The club decided that in the spirit of WHS it would be considered a WHS counting round - and numbers playing in it have dropped significantly…indeed this past Thursday only 26 played - and that’s a typical number.

TBH I think the fall-off in numbers is simply down to members not really ‘getting’ that a handicap qualifying round under WHS has a very different sort of impact than under the previous system. They want to play friendly competitive and despite having always played ‘card in hand’ for the rollup, they don’t believe they can do that with a handicap ’card in hand’. The idea that a rubbish round (that might come about as a result of having a bit of fun, a bit of a mess around, even picking up a few gimmes) is very unlikely, in itself, to impact a players handicap, frankly seems to have failed to land.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of things, our Thursday Rollup was until WHS the most popular rollup in the club, regularly 60+ playing, a majority being seniors it has to be said. The club decided that in the spirit of WHS it would be considered a WHS counting round - and numbers playing in it have dropped significantly…indeed this past Thursday only 26 played - and that’s a typical number.

TBH I think the fall-off in numbers is simply down to members not really ‘getting’ that a handicap qualifying round under WHS has a very different sort of impact than under the previous system. They want to play friendly competitive and despite having always played ‘card in hand’ for the rollup, they don’t believe they can do that with a handicap ’card in hand’. The idea that a rubbish round (that might come about as a result of having a bit of fun, a bit of a mess around, even picking up a few gimmes) is very unlikely, in itself, to impact a players handicap, frankly seems to have failed to land.

As we don't do most likely scores in England, surely the few gimmes makes their rounds ineligible for handicap purposes?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As we don't do most likely scores in England, surely the few gimmes makes their rounds ineligible for handicap purposes?

Are we not allowed 8 NRs in a card for it still to be eligible for WHS and not subject to any penalty? So up to 8 pick ups in a round is allowed for the card to remain eligible for WHS handicapping purposes.

That the rollup organisers could decide that such a card still counts for rollup comp purposes is, I‘d have thought, entirely up to them. The player enters NR on the system for every hole he picks up on but notifies the rollup organiser of his rollup score for any such hole. Just musing.

It doesn‘t happen like this. No more gimmes in the rollup and most ex-Thursday rollup players didn‘t like that for their Thursday golf and so no longer play in it.

 

[HeftyHacker]

Edit. Deleted

 

[Voyager EMH]

When a player is returning a handicap qualifying score, the player should be very aware that,

1. Player Responsibilities.

In order to comply with the requirements of the Rules of Handicapping, a player is expected to:

(i) Act with integrity by following the Rules of Handicapping and to refrain from using, or circumventing, the Rules of Handicapping for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage.

 

[Swango1980]

Are we not allowed 8 NRs in a card for it still to be eligible for WHS and not subject to any penalty? So up to 8 pick ups in a round is allowed for the card to remain eligible for WHS handicapping purposes.

That the rollup organisers could decide that such a card still counts for rollup comp purposes is, I‘d have thought, entirely up to them. The player enters NR on the system for every hole he picks up on but notifies the rollup organiser of his rollup score for any such hole. Just musing.

It doesn‘t happen like this. No more gimmes in the rollup and most ex-Thursday rollup players didn‘t like that for their Thursday golf and so no longer play in it.

If you have a shocker, you can have 18 pick ups (blobs) in an Acceptable round for handicap.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you have a shocker, you can have 18 pick ups (blobs) in an Acceptable round for handicap.

Don’t you still have to enter 10 gross scores though…

 

[Swango1980]

Don’t you still have to enter 10 gross scores though…

No, you have to start holes, but not finish them.

If it was a medal, you could have 18 10+ scores, and these rounded to nett double. So in Stableford, you could just pick up on every hole once you can't get a point, same impact to handicap

 

[wjemather]

Are we not allowed 8 NRs in a card for it still to be eligible for WHS and not subject to any penalty? So up to 8 pick ups in a round is allowed for the card to remain eligible for WHS handicapping purposes.

That the rollup organisers could decide that such a card still counts for rollup comp purposes is, I‘d have thought, entirely up to them. The player enters NR on the system for every hole he picks up on but notifies the rollup organiser of his rollup score for any such hole. Just musing.

It doesn‘t happen like this. No more gimmes in the rollup and most ex-Thursday rollup players didn‘t like that for their Thursday golf and so no longer play in it.

You can pick up on all 18 holes and the score can be acceptable for handicapping, however you must be attempting to make the best score you can on every hole - routinely picking up before nett double bogey is reached is clearly not doing that.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of things, our Thursday Rollup was until WHS the most popular rollup in the club, regularly 60+ playing, a majority being seniors it has to be said. The club decided that in the spirit of WHS it would be considered a WHS counting round - and numbers playing in it have dropped significantly…indeed this past Thursday only 26 played - and that’s a typical number.

TBH I think the fall-off in numbers is simply down to members not really ‘getting’ that a handicap qualifying round under WHS has a very different sort of impact than under the previous system. They want to play friendly competitive and despite having always played ‘card in hand’ for the rollup, they don’t believe they can do that with a handicap ’card in hand’. The idea that a rubbish round (that might come about as a result of having a bit of fun, a bit of a mess around, even picking up a few gimmes) is very unlikely, in itself, to impact a players handicap, frankly seems to have failed to land.

It looks like the fall off in numbers is not down to WHS, but to making the roll-up more serious than half the people wanted

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It looks like the fall off in numbers is not down to WHS, but to making the roll-up more serious than half the people wanted

That is certainly part of it - though ‘putting a card in‘ does not need to be synonymous with ‘more serious’ golf.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Are we not allowed 8 NRs in a card for it still to be eligible for WHS and not subject to any penalty?

That's a new one on me but this stuff is so convoluted I could have easily missed it.

 

[Kennysarmy]

Played in a B team match yesterday, on the first hole I conceded a putt and the guy said "I'll need to putt out as I'm doing a card" !!!!

In the clubhouse he then says "I've just text my mate and he's attested my score and I think I'll go down a bit".

I'm not convinced he actually putted out every single tap in putt.

Any problems with the above?

 

[wjemather]

Played in a B team match yesterday, on the first hole I conceded a putt and the guy said "I'll need to putt out as I'm doing a card" !!!!

In the clubhouse he then says "I've just text my mate and he's attested my score and I think I'll go down a bit".

I'm not convinced he actually putted out every single tap in putt.

Any problems with the above?

Yeah, everything except you playing in a match and conceding a putt.
You should raise it with your handicap committee, who can escalate it via county to the club & players concerned. EG are very keen to iron out these things (almost entirely through education and recruitment of volunteers) but that can only be done if the relevant people are (made) aware of where the problems are.

 

[Junior]

Played in a B team match yesterday, on the first hole I conceded a putt and the guy said "I'll need to putt out as I'm doing a card" !!!!

In the clubhouse he then says "I've just text my mate and he's attested my score and I think I'll go down a bit".

I'm not convinced he actually putted out every single tap in putt.

Any problems with the above?

Lol, lots.

Does the app work if his mate is not in the vicinity of the course to attest the score??

 

[clubchamp98]

Played in a B team match yesterday, on the first hole I conceded a putt and the guy said "I'll need to putt out as I'm doing a card" !!!!

In the clubhouse he then says "I've just text my mate and he's attested my score and I think I'll go down a bit".

I'm not convinced he actually putted out every single tap in putt.

Any problems with the above?

Just a normal day for SOME people!

 

[HeftyHacker]

Lol, lots.

Does the app work if his mate is not in the vicinity of the course to attest the score??

Having had someone make me attester for a round that I hadnt even played with them I can confirm it will let someone verify even if they are not in the vicinity of the course.

The attester doesn't get any notification until the score is submitted for them to approve.

(I rejected it btw).

 

[clubchamp98]

Having had someone make me attester for a round that I hadnt even played with them I can confirm it will let someone verify even if they are not in the vicinity of the course.

The attester doesn't get any notification until the score is submitted for them to approve.

(I rejected it btw).

That’s a bit of a joke and the tech is flawed.
but at the end of the day marking your own card and getting your mate to attest whos not even there is just plain cheating!

 

[Imurg]

Why do people still think that this is ok..?
Whether it's down to EG or individual clubs,,or both, I don't think enough effort has been put in to get the message across.
Our club has been excellent in educating us but even now, rapidly approaching 3 years down the line, there are still many that haven't a clue about WHS
Yes, some will be playing the system on purpose but I reckon there's many more that simply don't know or don't understand.
The scenario above simply shouldn't have been happening at the start of WHS let alone over 2 1/2 years on.