WHS doesn't work

[Voyager EMH]

I think that you will find that the system uses Adjusted Gross Score - what is it adjusted against?

An outlying large gross score on a hole may be adjusted to a lower gross score that is equal to a nett double bogey.
This is one aspect of the handicapping system that is based on gross scores.

 

[clubchamp98]

I do wish the WHS authorities and others would recognise that they have designed a Score Differential handicapping system based on net scores against a course. No more, no less.
Par is now an arbitrary irrelevance.

But surley that course must have a par so you can calculate your net score ?

 

[Voyager EMH]

I've just looked at my last 20 and my last 100 scores on My England Golf.

Can't see any nett scores recorded.

 

[clubchamp98]

An outlying large gross score on a hole may be adjusted to a lower gross score that is equal to a nett double bogey.
This is one aspect of the handicapping system that is based on gross scores.

But you can’t have a double bogey if you don’t have a par for the hole.

double bogey can be 5/6/ or 7 even 8 on some rare holes.!

 

[Voyager EMH]

But you can’t have a double bogey if you don’t have a par for the hole.

double bogey can be 5/6/ or 7 even 8 on some rare holes.!

The point you make is true.

But that does not deflect from the fact that the handicapping system is based on gross scores against the course.
What your nett score was on the day is not recorded.
There is a case of an extra shot deduction for a SD being 7 shots below HI. But that is really comparing one gross score against 8 other gross scores.

 

[rulefan]

But surley that course must have a par so you can calculate your net score ?

Your net score is Gross - CR (ie the standard measure of difficulty)

 

[rulefan]

Email them to let them know. Better that than letting them all live in ignorance

EG have known it all along. That's why they chose their original route. They are now bowing to external pressures which many insiders are not too happy about.

 

[rulefan]

I've emailed @rulefan to tell him his last sentence, "Par is now an arbitrary irrelevance" is missing the phrase "when it comes to handicap calculations!"

Of course. It is after all a Handicapping System.

 

[Swango1980]

It's ironic I was accused of wanting the last word a while ago. Seems someone is even more determined to have the last word in here.....

Par isn't irrelevant within the handicap system. As others have pointed out, it is used directly to scale bad scores down. If it was deemed to be completely unreliable, I suspect the handicap authorities may use a different parameter to reduce bad scores, say perhaps the yardage of the hole.

 

[rulefan]

Ah, I was under the impression that the WHS Score Differential handicapping system was based on gross scores against the course.

Oops

 

[Swango1980]

EG have known it all along. That's why they chose their original route. They are now bowing to external pressures which many insiders are not too happy about.

Or "some insiders"? I'd be surprised if if was many insiders, because surely it would simply be easier to just leave it as it is? And, if many insiders were simply bowing to external pressures, what are those external pressures? They must have some weight behind them, to force an entire national authority to make the change against their will?

 

[wjemather]

Ah, I was under the impression that the WHS Score Differential handicapping system was based on adjusted gross scores against the course.

But that does not deflect from the fact that the handicapping system is based on adjusted gross scores against the course.

You keep omitting a key word, which necessitates Par.

 

[wjemather]

Par isn't irrelevant within the handicap system. As others have pointed out, it is used directly to scale bad scores down. If it was deemed to be completely unreliable, I suspect the handicap authorities may use a different parameter to reduce bad scores, say perhaps the yardage of the hole.

The old USGA system set a maximum number of strokes per hole - called 'Equitable Stroke Control', it was double-bogey for single figure golfers (so par was still involved to a small extent) but for everyone else it was a sliding scale from 7 to 10, based on handicap alone.

 

[Swango1980]

The old USGA system set a maximum number of strokes per hole - called 'Equitable Stroke Control', it was double-bogey for single figure golfers (so par was still involved to a small extent) but for everyone else it was a sliding scale from 7 to 10, based on handicap alone.

I think I've seen the scores of golfers who follow a similar system when it comes to competition scores. They may have a really bad score, but they never seem to have anything worse than a 10. They may have 7 or 8 10's, but never anything worse

 

[wjemather]

I think I've seen the scores of golfers who follow a similar system when it comes to competition scores. They may have a really bad score, but they never seem to have anything worse than a 10. They may have 7 or 8 10's, but never anything worse

Maximum Score is an officially recognised stroke play format; 5-over-par maximum hole score for handicapping being the recommended minimum when using this format.

 

[Swango1980]

Maximum Score is an officially recognised stroke play format; 5-over-par maximum hole score for handicapping being the recommended minimum when using this format.

Indeed. But I'm talking about bog standard medals. Just something I've noticed over the years from one or 2 players at my old and latest clubs, that raised a curious and slightly suspicious eyebrow.

My mate says his dad is like this, if he has a horror hole, he'll just always say he got a 10 (even if 15+ might have been more accurate).

 

[Voyager EMH]

You keep omitting a key word, which necessitates Par.

But that does not deflect from the fact that the handicapping system is based on gross scores against the course.

Ooh look, I've done it again. The above statement does not need the word "adjusted" inserted, since it uses the words "based on".

The purpose of the statement was not to declare, or otherwise, the relevance of par, but to emphasise that nett scores are not the basis for handicapping.

 

[jim8flog]

Nothing to do with egos
Everything to do with not wishing to play in atrocious conditions.
Sure we could all nurdle it around it the mud & watch our handicaps rise well above our real ability come the better weather, but some of would consider that handicap manipulation.

In this country, given our weather, where courses cannot support good playing conditions year round, there should be a recognised golf season (April - November)
Outside of this period, qualifiers should not be played.
Otherwise, come Spring certain individuals will be off of inflated handicaps.

I play a West Country Course and ours are in good enough condition most of the time to play comps all year round (which we do). Most comps are nearly full and in fact there are more players on Saturday in Winter than there are in Summer.

Like most courses in tis area we went to August greens renovation as against previously when this was done in October to give us good green in winter.

On a personal note I would hate to see us a have to go to a period of non qualifiers in winter. I want a handicap based upon all year round conditions not just when conditions (some may see as) are at their best. Many years ago all of my downward movement in Handicap came outside of the summer period simply because the greens were much more receptive and you did not get the weird and wonderful bounces you get in summer.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Clearly, I need a second home and membership of a second club. Don't think I will be able to convince Mrs V that this is a priority.
Permanent move to another place is a non-starter in this respect.

 

[Swango1980]

I play a West Country Course and ours are in good enough condition most of the time to play comps all year round (which we do). Most comps are nearly full and in fact there are more players on Saturday in Winter than there are in Summer.

Like most courses in tis area we went to August greens renovation as against previously when this was done in October to give us good green in winter.

On a personal note I would hate to see us a have to go to a period of non qualifiers in winter. I want a handicap based upon all year round conditions not just when conditions (some may see as) are at their best. Many years ago all of my downward movement in Handicap came outside of the summer period simply because the greens were much more receptive and you did not get the weird and wonderful bounces you get in summer.

Agreed. I play all year round, and I've certainly known players to shoot very very good scores in both winter and summer. Quite annoying to watch golfers shoot great scores in winter, and not have any handicap cuts because it was decided the competition should be non-qualifier, solely based on fact of the month it was played.

However, I guess if it was felt that "qualifiers" should not be played in the winter due to poor weather, then there might be an argument to not allow "qualifiers" at the moment. The weather is much nicer than normal, and this might generally promote better scores than normal, and result in bigger handicap decreases than normal? Might be especially beneficial to shorter hitters, who are now getting significantly more run on their shots