WHS doesn't work

[Swango1980]

I don‘t know what UHS is, I’m in the U.K. and we were under CONGU. No, I didn’t feel that it gave me an advantage before, never mind a significant one. I felt it was fair before and I certainly wasn’t cleaning up and only ever won 2 medals under CONGU ten years of play but at least I felt that I had a chance. Now I feel I have no chance whatsoever and it makes entering comps a completely worthless venture.

The UHS was what we had before in the UK, before WHS

 

[jim8flog]

There was a time under UHS where you could only submit one Supplementary score in every 7 day period and Cat 1 golfers couldn't submit them - I can't remember when this changed.

From my memory it was a few years before the WHS. Definitely in my terms on the Captain's committee which ended in 2020.

Rules for Cat 1 golfers stayed in place until the WHS came in, when golfers Cats ceased. The end of the special treatment for low handicap golfers was WHS plus point for me.

 

[jim8flog]

I don‘t know what UHS is, I’m in the U.K. and we were under CONGU. No, I didn’t feel that it gave me an advantage before, never mind a significant one. I felt it was fair before and I certainly wasn’t cleaning up and only ever won 2 medals under CONGU ten years of play but at least I felt that I had a chance. Now I feel I have no chance whatsoever and it makes entering comps a completely worthless venture.

UHS = Unified Handicap System as used in all areas which used CONGU as the governing body, the UK as well as other regions of the world.

Does your club not have divisions in medals so like are competing against like?

 

[IanM]

Heck, my mate and I are heading north next week for a two site 36 hole pairs Open. I know we could have the best rounds of our lives and not finish in the prizes, because we haven't fiddled our handicaps. Some "geezers" will be 6 or more clear!

 

[Tower]

Just to make sure you've got this:

1. If playing a medal you can also play a match (club rules permitting)
2. If playing a match, you cannot submit a general play card for handicap

Can you please point me to an authoritative doc that specifies the bit in bold. It (a supplementary card in a match) seems to me to be something not envisaged under UHS, but far more likely under WHS. Personally, I'd have declined to act as the guy's marker, as I wouldn't want the additional hassle and would suspect it of being gamesmanship.

 

[HampshireHog]

Genuinely, this thread makes me feel a bit sad about golf.

I quite like the methodology of WHS and to be honest we don’t see the same issues of big scores coming in at my club.

Being a bit “old school” I don’t submit GP cards and just play comps for my handicap, so my 20 rounds are an indication of my form over 10 months, as opposed to 4 weeks for the habitual card submitter.

Anyway my thought is if it were best 8 rounds from the last 12 months, which would be extended if 20 rounds were not submitted in a 12 month period.

This would give a better indication of potential / form over a consistent period of time, and reduce the opportunity for manipulation. Handicaps would be lower across the golfing population and scores should be less extreme.

 

[Alan Clifford]

An odd description for professional statisticians.

They may have been professional statisticians but it's as though it were designed by people ignorant of mathematics but who were in awe of arithmetic.

 

[IanM]

Genuinely, this thread makes me feel a bit sad about golf.

...or at least about the folk who run the game or those who think they do!

Virtually everyone I play with pretty much operates as you do, and have no general play scores on their record.

Every non comp round we play is 4BBB.

 

[IanM]

From Google.

Score Differential = (Adjusted Gross Score – Course Rating – PCC) X (113 ÷ Slope Rating), result rounded to one decimal point.

Anyone who comes up with this as the answer to a question has got their priorities wrong!

 

[Tower]

They may have been professional statisticians but it's as though it were designed by people ignorant of mathematics but who were in awe of arithmetic.

I hardly think an ex US Navy Lieutenant Commander, with a BSc in Maths and an MSc in Computer Science would be in awe of arithmetic.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I hardly think an ex US Navy Lieutenant Commander, with a BSc in Maths and an MSc in Computer Science would be in awe of arithmetic.

But they still chose to use an average

 

[Alan Clifford]

From Google.

Score Differential = (Adjusted Gross Score – Course Rating – PCC) X (113 ÷ Slope Rating), result rounded to one decimal point.

Anyone who comes up with this as the answer to a question has got their priorities wrong!

It's one of the few places in the handicap manuals where the rounding is specified. Yet HNA store it to 4dp in their database. I find this sort of attitude bewildering.

 

[Tower]

But they still chose to use an average

What's your problem with that? And it's not a simple average either; that would almost always give a higher HI.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Can you please point me to an authoritative doc that specifies the bit in bold. It (a supplementary card in a match) seems to me to be something not envisaged under UHS, but far more likely under WHS. Personally, I'd have declined to act as the guy's marker, as I wouldn't want the additional hassle and would suspect it of being gamesmanship.

Yup...https://www.scottishgolf.org/find-out-about-acceptable-scores-under-whs

 

[IanM]

It's one of the few places in the handicap manuals where the rounding is specified. Yet HNA store it to 4dp in their database. I find this sort of attitude bewildering.

I meant that it demonstrates a preoccupation on process and a disregard for usage and user.

But it's a common malaise!

 

[Tower]

Yup...https://www.scottishgolf.org/find-out-about-acceptable-scores-under-whs

Nothing in that doc specifically prevents the Strokeplay element from being allowed - though obviously Strokeplay rules, such as putting out, would have to apply to it.

 

[clubchamp98]

Are recent posts discussing a problem or highlighting a theoretical possibility

Are these 50 plus point comp winners a bunch of former 24 handicappers now playing off 29 h/cap (or similar rise) or do they have a different handicap profile

Yes in my experience they are players who have been playing for years who have gone up several shots and are capable golfers.
we have only had one 34 capper win , all the others are former 16 / 24 who are now 22/ 28.

The other side of it is most single figure guys have actually gone down.

 

[Golfist]

Yes in my experience they are players who have been playing for years who have gone up several shots and are capable golfers.
we have only had one 34 capper win , all the others are former 16 / 24 who are now 22/ 28.

The other side of it is most single figure guys have actually gone down.

Do you think WHS has removed any incentive to get better?

 

[rulefan]

Do you think WHS has removed any incentive to get better?

Why would there be any more or less incentive under UHS as opposed to WHS?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Nothing in that doc specifically prevents the Strokeplay element from being allowed - though obviously Strokeplay rules, such as putting out, would have to apply to it.

it does unless you're being awkward.

• In an authorized format of play; (Strokeplay, Stableford and Par/Bogey).

ie. NOT matchplay, NOT 4BBB

You can play matchplay if taking part in a strokeplay event, your score would then count, playing matchplay and deciding to enter a GP score (ie. NOT an event) is not the same thing


Try this G2.1a https://www.walesgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Congu-Handicapping-Advice.pdf