WHS doesn't work

[nickjdavis]

But as I said, Supp Scores preceded WHS by some years. Why was there no manipulation then?

Because you could only put one score in, in any 7 day period. Unlike the WHS, where you can effectively erase your most recent 20 scores in the space of three weeks, it would have taken 5 months under UHS.

Dont get me wrong...i'm on the supportive side of WHS and statistics I have run for scoring data at my club (which I have previously posted in this thread) show no significant change in scoring patterns, other than the fact that it has improved the chances of higher handicappers (but not so much that they now have an advantage)....however the ability to carpet bomb your handicap record with new scores in a very short space of time is a drawback that isn't fully mitigated by the soft and hard caps.

 

[D-S]

Because you could only put one score in, in any 7 day period. Unlike the WHS, where you can effectively erase your most recent 20 scores in the space of three weeks, it would have taken 5 months under UHS.

Dont get me wrong...i'm on the supportive side of WHS and statistics I have run for scoring data at my club (which I have previously posted in this thread) show no significant change in scoring patterns, other than the fact that it has improved the chances of higher handicappers (but not so much that they now have an advantage)....however the ability to carpet bomb your handicap record with new scores in a very short space of time is a drawback that isn't fully mitigated by the soft and hard caps.

Also there was more scrutiny of Supplementary scores as they normally were submitted to the Handicap Committee for entry, as well as the fact that there were far, far fewer than now.

 

[Imurg]

In the Supplementary card era you would still,only go up by 0.1 for every card over buffer.
With WHS you can go up much faster.
Just in the last few weeks I've gone up by 0.4,,0.4 and 0.5 shots..these rounds weren't consecutive.
It would have taken 13 rounds to go up by the same amount..

 

[rulefan]

In the Supplementary card era you would still,only go up by 0.1 for every card over buffer.
With WHS you can go up much faster.
Just in the last few weeks I've gone up by 0.4,,0.4 and 0.5 shots..these rounds weren't consecutive.
It would have taken 13 rounds to go up by the same amount..

Perhaps this is more reflective of your play. I don't know how old the scores were that 'dropped off'.
The 0.1 didn't really reflect when a player was now consistently playing 5 or 10 over his handicap.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

In the Supplementary card era you would still,only go up by 0.1 for every card over buffer.
With WHS you can go up much faster.
Just in the last few weeks I've gone up by 0.4,,0.4 and 0.5 shots..these rounds weren't consecutive.
It would have taken 13 rounds to go up by the same amount..

Yes, but now your HI is correct according to your last 20 rounds, regardless of what your Index was before

 

[Golfist]

So how does anything you mention differ from UHS?

Because the new handicap system grants too many shots. It seems to me as though the better the player you are the more disadvantaged WHS makes you.

The old system had what some called was an advantage for excellence. This is right and proper in my view.

I don’t know of anyone who submitted supplementary cards before WHS. It may have been permitted but nobody did it unless it was to get a handicap or retain it. Now, few do it, meaning we have a huge range between out-of-date handicaps and very up-to-date handicaps. Hardly an even playing field.

Higher handicap players now have a certain advantage on courses with high slope ratings.

 

[Imurg]

Yes, but now your HI is correct according to your last 20 rounds, regardless of what your Index was before

The point I'm making is that my index has gone up quicker under WHS.
All my 20 scores are within the last 3 months.
I've had cuts and non counting cards in that time.
There would have been little chance of that sort of an increase previously.

 

[jim8flog]

Because you could only put one score in, in any 7 day period.

That went out long before the WHS came in

 

[D-S]

That went out long before the WHS came in

Just because people are critical of WHS doesn’t necessarily mean that UHS got it right.

 

[jim8flog]

Just because people are critical of WHS doesn’t necessarily mean that UHS got it right.

just in case you are not aware I am in favour of the WHS in general.

 

[clubchamp98]

But as I said, Supp Scores preceded WHS by some years. Why was there no manipulation then?

Cat 1 we’re not allowed although I never tested that fact.

Possibly because you had to turn up tell the pro ,put your physical card in the box attested by your marker.
Now you can do it from your lounge and get your mate to attest it even though he wasn’t even there.!

But for honest golfers it’s just so much easier that’s a good thing by the way.
but the abuse of the system is going unpunished because the app makes it so easy to do.

 

[clubchamp98]

Cheats will cheat any system unless they're challenged.
If somebody walks out of Tesco with a trolley full of vodka without paying, it's the fault of Tesco's security, not a loophole in the Theft Act.

Not disputing what you're saying, by the way, just relating the scenario to the "WHS doesn't work" proposition of the thread.

I asked the question before WHS was implemented.
”Will it make the handicap secs job harder?”
I was assured by many they would not notice the difference in workload.
I said that was nonesense then and still think that now.
most are volunteers. Who do a good job .

 

[RichA]

It's funny that the only manipulation I've seen was by acquaintances trying to stop their HI going up...
Register a GP round on MyEG, play badly and cancel the round part way through citing, "Lightning strike" or "Badger attack" as the reason.

 

[Imurg]

It's funny that the only manipulation I've seen was by acquaintances trying to stop their HI going up...
Register a GP round on MyEG, play badly and cancel the round part way through citing, "Lightning strike" or "Badger attack" as the reason.

 

[Swango1980]

It's funny that the only manipulation I've seen was by acquaintances trying to stop their HI going up...
Register a GP round on MyEG, play badly and cancel the round part way through citing, "Lightning strike" or "Badger attack" as the reason.

I know a guy like this. His best excuse was that he had do abandon the round at half way to go and paint a door.

He is a vanity handicapper, with an Index of 20.0

 

[clubchamp98]

It's funny that the only manipulation I've seen was by acquaintances trying to stop their HI going up...
Register a GP round on MyEG, play badly and cancel the round part way through citing, "Lightning strike" or "Badger attack" as the reason.

That might be that you pick your pps carefully .
you might not play with the type who would blatantly cheat.

This is why it’s to easy to manipulate “Badger attack” you should have to show proof of your injuries.
or maybe it only injured their feelings.
The pro would say “ what lightning” an app can’t do that!

 

[D-S]

just in case you are not aware I am in favour of the WHS in general.

It was that a lot of folk defend WHS by saying that the same problem/issue existed under UHS; that doesn’t mean that as it existed in a previous flawed system then we can’t put it right now.

 

[Tower]

it does unless you're being awkward.

• In an authorized format of play; (Strokeplay, Stableford and Par/Bogey).

ie. NOT matchplay, NOT 4BBB

You can play matchplay if taking part in a strokeplay event, your score would then count, playing matchplay and deciding to enter a GP score (ie. NOT an event) is not the same thing


Try this G2.1a https://www.walesgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Congu-Handicapping-Advice.

Not being awkward, just reading and forming an opinion based on interpreting the procedure differently to you. As I posted earlier, I don't believe anything in either reference you quoted specificlly excludes the combo. Both simply state how the two can be played, in a full field in comp, together. That said, I'm out.

 

[D-S]

I play a lot of 4BBB but we always play it is a 4BBB stableford. It is something I introduced many years ago primarily because it means matches will often go all the way to the 18th

In one swindle I play in you cannot win the kitty unless you put in a GP card. There are often 4 players in a group and most want to play 4BBB with the stake being the kitty money. Players only pick up when they cannot score on a hole because the kitty is for a single player so all players will have a score for every hole. Their is normally no advice between pairs as each player is competing against their partner for the kitty.

Surely if the competition format is 4BB, then they cannot put in a GP scorecard. The only acceptable format under CONGU is individual strokeplay irrespective of whether players hole out or not.

 

[jim8flog]

Surely if the competition format is 4BB, then they cannot put in a GP scorecard. The only acceptable format under CONGU is individual strokeplay irrespective of whether players hole out or not.

The format for the swindle is individual stableford.