WHS doesn't work

[Swango1980]

Just put it all in the course handicap. Along with the course rating

In all honesty, personally I would have been happy with that. Said it right at the start, and would stop people getting confused about playing allowances for most comps.

But, others don't like the idea as high handicappers may lose a shot, maybe two if very high, in singles match play. That is a fair statement, pros and cons

 

[BDC]

Seen some very dodgy things on EG recently. Saw one guy that i has won a lot on on a major UK amateur tour, put 2 x 9 hole cards in when playing 18 holes and then playing 2x 18 courses in 1 day, courses that were 4 hours drive apart.
Shame is that England Golf are not prepared to do anything and they put the onus on the clubs secretary who probably turn a blind eye to it as they dont want to lose paying members.
Sadly cheats in golf is far too common, and it totally ruins the sporting side to it.

 

[Captain_Black.]

OK.
I started this thread & obviously from the amount of replies, a great many of you feel as I do.
On reflection after reading most of the replies, I probably should have titled this thread as handicap abuse rather than issues with WHS as I firmly believe that fantasy handicaps are primarily the root cause of all the dissatisfaction aimed at WHS.

There are posters on here making all the excuses under the sun for the crazy scores that I'm seeing (it has to be said, this is mainly in the Seniors sections)
Improving players / the round of a lifetime / returning players, I've heard it all, most of it trying desperately to defend the indefensible
.
But after what I've witnessed in the last few weeks, absolutely nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise to the fact that we have quite a few (mainly Seniors) who are playing off of totally incorrect handicaps which to a large degree have been manufactured by themselves.
In other words.
Blatant cheating.

 

[upsidedown]

Club stableford yesterday and guy off 33 won with 40 points , brilliant as he's 87 years young

 

[Voyager EMH]

Since the start of WHS, I have not seen any tremendously low nett scores from seniors at my club.
Such scores have come only from younger improving players and players in their first or second year of playing golf.
And it was ever thus.

 

[jim8flog]

But after what I've witnessed in the last few weeks, absolutely nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise to the fact that we have quite a few (mainly Seniors) who are playing off of totally incorrect handicaps which to a large degree have been manufactured by themselves.
In other words.
Blatant cheating.

Again I would say this sort of thing happened well before the WHS began. From my own experience (particularly from playing in interclub matches) players whose handicaps were well above ability. Those who simply only ever ever put in enough cards to maintain 'C' status and those that submitted a lot of Supplementary Scores always worse than handicap.

 

[Swango1980]

Again I would say this sort of thing happened well before the WHS began. From my own experience (particularly from playing in interclub matches) players whose handicaps were well above ability. Those who simply only ever ever put in enough cards to maintain 'C' status and those that submitted a lot of Supplementary Scores always worse than handicap.

Always been these types of players. But, the same behaviour now will result in much quicker and bigger increases.

It is a matter of fact the system allows handicaps to increase more quickly. This can, and was sold as a benefit when talking about honest golfers of declining ability. Not so great when it helps handicap cheats. Committees need to keep a closer eye on it, but not east to pick it up all the time, and behaviour may not be so blatantly obvious that it is difficult to accuse them of foul play

 

[Backsticks]

I think people underestimate how erratic most golfers, and higher hcs in particular, are. The UHS gave a false illusion of consistency - Joe Bloggs, yes, he is a 15.

But really, hcs moving in a 3 or 4 shot band is more realistic, and we shouldnt see someone rising by 2 or 3 as in anyway manipulated or cheating. Joe Bloggs being 14 or 18 is perfectly OK, and more representative of his play than the straightjacket UHS tended to impose.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

courses that were 4 hours drive apart

Ultimately he must have been at the second course....as the places are geo-fenced. You have to be within a certain distance of the course to load up a general play card on the various apps being used.

 

[clubchamp98]

Ultimately he must have been at the second course....as the places are geo-fenced. You have to be within a certain distance of the course to load up a general play card on the various apps being used.

Is there any way around this ? Genuine question.
similar to a VPN is it to view content from another part of the world.
I am not very tech savvy but imagine some genius could get around this.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Is there any way around this ? Genuine question.
similar to a VPN is it to view content from another part of the world.
I am not very tech savvy but imagine some genius could get around this.

VPNs might hide your location from a country perspective. ie, fool servers you are in Spain when you aren't etc. Sometimes helpful, if you are of the nature, to get subscriptions for cheaper like YouTube Premium.

I don't believe you can tell it to be a specific location

 

[Swango1980]

Is there any way around this ? Genuine question.
similar to a VPN is it to view content from another part of the world.
I am not very tech savvy but imagine some genius could get around this.

Without knowing the tech savvy answers, explanations could be:

1. He genuinely played both courses, just had a long day playing golf and travelling
2. He played one course a long way from his home. When at home, either before or after travelling, signed in to a course nearby. Never played it but just put in a fake score

 

[Jimaroid]

You can spoof location services. For example how else might App developers test their Apps - by literally walking around the world?

From a high level service perspective this is a classic problem: never trust the user. It’s a security issue that’s a complex and constant battle, ultimately costs a lot of time and resource to deal with technically via more heuristic pattern analysis. In the current implementations, that analysis lands on handicap secretaries which is unfair and technically naive IMO.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

 

[clubchamp98]

You can spoof location services. For example how else might App developers test their Apps - by literally walking around the world?

From a high level service perspective this is a classic problem: never trust the user. It’s a security issue that’s a complex and constant battle, ultimately costs a lot of time and resource to deal with technically via more heuristic pattern analysis. In the current implementations, that analysis lands on handicap secretaries which is unfair and technically naive IMO.

Right thank you.

I did ask the question when WHS was mooted.
” will this make the handicap sec job harder and up the workload”?
I was told it would not.
that seems to be wrong now.!
They need to be computer wizards as well.

 

[clubchamp98]

Without knowing the tech savvy answers, explanations could be:

1. He genuinely played both courses, just had a long day playing golf and travelling
2. He played one course a long way from his home. When at home, either before or after travelling, signed in to a course nearby. Never played it but just put in a fake score

That second option should just not be avaliable.
The use of aps has been good but it opens the door for abuse.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

You can spoof location services. For example how else might App developers test their Apps - by literally walking around the world?

For development, when you control the actual .ipa file you will be able to.

For users, who do't have the .ipa file, I imagine it is nigh on impossible. If people have found a way to do it...then you know what, if you want to go to that length for a stupid sport, then you are keener than 99.99% of all golfers around the world.

 

[nickjdavis]

View attachment 48057

I wonder what date it will actually WORK by.

...and will the new software support the submission of competition scores for golfers paying across the border in official comps?

If I play a general play round in Scotland....can I use a Scottish golfer who does not have the EG App to attest my score?

 

[Deleted member 15717]

I wonder what date it will actually WORK by.

...and will the new software support the submission of competition scores for golfers paying across the border in official comps?

If I play a general play round in Scotland....can I use a Scottish golfer who does not have the EG App to attest my score?

Led to believe that yes to the above. The databases will be talking to each other.

a few in our society our heading to Scotland next week so going to test it

 

[Jimaroid]

For users, who do't have the .ipa file, I imagine it is nigh on impossible. If people have found a way to do it...then you know what, if you want to go to that length for a stupid sport, then you are keener than 99.99% of all golfers around the world.

It’s a lot easier than you might think, I mean I’ve not done it myself (honest m’lud) but yes, fiddly and ultimately pretty sad. Also sad that when it comes to matters of security dealing with 0.01% of people makes up the 99.99% of the time and cost.

Anyway, off topic I suppose.