WHS doesn't work

[Swango1980]

Stableford is a strokeplay competition format where 95% of course handicap is used.
This is what Playing Handicap has to do with it.

I think you are getting very confused here?

We are specifically talking about handicaps. As such, it is incredibly simple surely to use your Course Handicap.

If we were discussing Competition results, then we could talk about Playing Handicap.

 

[Voyager EMH]

And that is absolutely fine, and nobody is taking this away from you.

But, not every golfer will be reviewing their scores on an app. Not every golfer will be able to shoot a score, and immediately know their Score Differential. If I ever ask anyone how they played, not once in my life have they told me their score differential.

For most golfers, they are aware of their stableford or nett score. If I was to shoot 20 points, I can immediately say "I've not played to handicap today, not even close". No one would disagree. If it can be said I've not played to handicap, at some point there will be a score that suggests I have. At my course, that score is 37 points yellows, 36 whites. My old course, 39 points yellows, 37 whites.

Having different points totals at different courses can be confusing to golfers still. You know, the ones who just play golf and aren't overly nerdy about it, probably over 90% of golfers. And when CR-Par is introduced, that vanishes as we can all just look at 36 points as the benchmark, or nett par with the bad holes rounded down to.nett double

Yep, my experience with other players is exactly what you describe - still heavily influenced by the previous handicapping system.

When CR-Par is introduced, 36 points will continue to be an inaccurate measure for comparing score made to handicap, since some will be scoring stableford points to a handicap that differs from their course handicap by various numbers of shots.

Score differentials will be unchanged after CR-Par is introduced.

 

[tobybarker]

well thanks for clearing that up chaps

 

[Voyager EMH]

I think you are getting very confused here?

We are specifically talking about handicaps. As such, it is incredibly simple surely to use your Course Handicap.

If we were discussing Competition results, then we could talk about Playing Handicap.

In competition with others you use a playing handicap.

In play against the course no handicap is used.

Course Handicap is one step on the way from converting Handicap Index to Playing Handicap.
In Australia they haven't bothered to give this step a name.

 

[Swango1980]

Yep, my experience with other players is exactly what you describe - still heavily influenced by the previous handicapping system.

When CR-Par is introduced, 36 points will continue to be an inaccurate measure for comparing score made to handicap, since some will be scoring stableford points to a handicap that differs from their course handicap by various numbers of shots.

Score differentials will be unchanged after CR-Par is introduced.

Your issue is that you ate getting hung up on Playing Handicap. This is exactly what the likes of Gemma Hunter (who was at England Golf at the time of WHS transition) told us not to do, to focus on Course Handicap.

It seems you missed that memo?

 

[Swango1980]

In competition with others you use a playing handicap.

In play against the course no handicap is used.

Course Handicap is one step on the way from converting Handicap Index to Playing Handicap.
In Australia they haven't bothered to give this step a name.

If a player asked you how would they know when it was safe to pick up on a bad hole, what advice would you give?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Your issue is that you ate getting hung up on Playing Handicap. This is exactly what the likes of Gemma Hunter (who was at England Golf at the time of WHS transition) told us not to do, to focus on Course Handicap.

It seems you missed that memo?

I saw that message and saw the video.
That was her view at the time.
I had no firm view at the time.
I have formed a view that is different from her view.
Not one of us is wrong or right (correct or incorrect) we have differing views.

 

[Voyager EMH]

If a player asked you how would they know when it was safe to pick up on a bad hole, what advice would you give?

My first response would be, "Are you playing a medal or a stableford competition?"
My following responses would be as helpful as I could possibly be, according to my knowledge and abilities, to that player.

 

[Swango1980]

My first response would be, "Are you playing a medal or a stableford competition?"
My following responses would be as helpful as I could possibly be, according to my knowledge and abilities, to that player.

They reply Stableford. Then what would you say?

 

[clubchamp98]

well thanks for clearing that up chaps

Yes changing a system where you have one handicap to one where you have lots of different ones depending on where you play was always going to be hard for some to get their head around.

 

[wjemather]

Yes changing a system where you have one handicap to one where you have lots of different ones depending on where you play was always going to be hard for some to get their head around.

You didn't just have one handicap under the old system - you had exact handicap and playing handicap; you also had your stroke allowance. The same concepts are now HI, CH & PH.

 

[Voyager EMH]

They reply Stableford. Then what would you say?

It would vary depending on what I perceive to be the player's understanding of the new system.

Next time it happens, I might make an audio recording, in order for it to be an absolutely truthful answer to your question.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

They reply Stableford. Then what would you say?

If your playing handicap is 18 or less pick up once you’ve played 2 shots more than the par of the hole. If over 18 then once you’ve played 3 shots more than the par of the hole.

 

[Backsticks]

To those with views and who really understand it, just a question : would it have been better if the 0.95 had been applied directly at the HI calculation ? As the bulk of golf is singles.
Fourballs etc multipliers could still be applied as the exception rather than the rule, as we did in the olden times.
So your headline HI, and notional playing to it, would have been closer. And only one step course adjustment, rather than 2. It is still bizarre to me to see my three handicaps on my card label when I sign into a comp.

 

[Backsticks]

I saw that message and saw the video.
That was her view at the time.
I had no firm view at the time.
I have formed a view that is different from her view.
Not one of us is wrong or right (correct or incorrect) we have differing views.

I am not convinced on your view on it being only views, or Schrodinger style neither correct or incorrect. We are trying to open the box here, and the cat will be found either dead or alive.

 

[AussieKB]

Yes changing a system where you have one handicap to one where you have lots of different ones depending on where you play was always going to be hard for some to get their head around.

I'm a member of 2 clubs and I play off 5 at one and 4 the other, I also play a lot of other courses, last Thursday I was off 3, then I came 4th in a medal for a flag round and went out point 5

I know it all depends on your 20th card falling off but how does that rate how I am playing now ?

 

[Backsticks]

I know it all depends on your 20th card falling off but how does that rate how I am playing now ?

No differently than any other system including UHS. And system is subject to the frequency and intervals between individuals submitting cards.
The general-play-cards as normal rather than exception was I guess, an attempt to nudge that in a better direction : use as many cards as possible to assess a persons level, rather than the subset that are formal competitions.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Your issue is that you ate getting hung up on Playing Handicap. This is exactly what the likes of Gemma Hunter (who was at England Golf at the time of WHS transition) told us not to do, to focus on Course Handicap.

It seems you missed that memo?

And for that reason I've been hearing this kind of thing,

"I scored 41 points today, but that stupid 95% thing means I only got 40 points in the comp and I've been beaten by someone who did not lose a shot due to the 95% thing like I did. This new system discriminates against players with higher handicaps. Its rubbish!"

And so it continues. A bit less now than last year, but it still happens.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I am not convinced on your view on it being only views, or Schrodinger style neither correct or incorrect. We are trying to open the box here, and the cat will be found either dead or alive.

Glass half empty or glass half full?

When I look at you, your left is my right.

Views are views.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

To those with views and who really understand it, just a question : would it have been better if the 0.95 had been applied directly at the HI calculation ? As the bulk of golf is singles.
Fourballs etc multipliers could still be applied as the exception rather than the rule, as we did in the olden times.
So your headline HI, and notional playing to it, would have been closer. And only one step course adjustment, rather than 2. It is still bizarre to me to see my three handicaps on my card label when I sign into a comp.

Which is why it was interesting that the player and comp info label stuck on our card for the medal yesterday contained no handicap info whatsoever - and it was stuck over the boxes where we’d normally enter it.

This reflects the guidance given by the club when WHS was launched…for any format just enter your gross score for every hole and the system will sort everything else out.