WHS doesn't work

[Deleted member 29109]

If I was playing a "match" and someone started holing out to record a score after the hole was won/lost, I think I would walk in if it became any more than the odd tap in!

What happens if you have a downhill 12 footer for a half? Do you lag it to protect your medal card?

Given how much match play we apparently play in the UK. Would it not make sense for match play to be included in handicap calculations?

 

[IanM]

Given how much match play we apparently play in the UK. Would it not make sense for match play to be included in handicap calculations?

No I don't think so, as illustrated in my post that you have quoted. Another is if my opponent goes OB or in the water... I'll not be playing the hole in the same way as I would in a medal. He's taking 8, I am playing for a 6 or 7!

Although, I guess it varies from club to club. My home club has a qualifying comp every Saturday and every Wednesday, so no shortage of opportunities to log scores, even without folk putting in Gen Play cards.

 

[Bdill93]

No I don't think so, as illustrated in my post that you have quoted. Another is if my opponent goes OB or in the water... I'll not be playing the hole in the same way as I would in a medal. He's taking 8, I am playing for a 6 or 7!

Although, I guess it varies from club to club. My home club has a qualifying comp every Saturday and every Wednesday, so no shortage of opportunities to log scores, even without folk putting in Gen Play cards.

As do we - but the members who can only play once a week at weekend then miss out on their chance to record a score that week if they have a match to play.

Its really not the end of the world to me personally but some people are different!

 

[Imurg]

Given how much match play we apparently play in the UK. Would it not make sense for match play to be included in handicap calculations?

No...because in Matchplay your actual score doesn't matter...it just needs to be one less than the other guy.
If you're 15 feet away and you've got 2 putts to win the hole then you're likely not going for the 1 putt...so you're not trying to make the best possible score....
Likewise if you've got a 10 footer for a half you're not going to worry about the one coming back...

 

[Swango1980]

Yeah totally get it, although its not really much of a compromise to play a match to strokeplay rules (at least for me) and easily outweighed by the benefits

Yeah, I was just explaining why it isn't encouraged to mix both formats. As others explain, not only are the rules different, but so is the mentality in many situations.

The only advantage, as I see it, is that players can play a stroke-play competition, whilst also playing a match at the same time, killing 2 birds with one stone? That particular benefit is probably not recognised by most players anyway. Our stroke play competitions are either drawn in handicap order, or randomly. The club are not going to swap the order around so 2 players can also play a match at the same time, on the rare occasion those 2 players cannot play at any other time (and if they did, I wonder if the 3rd player in the group may be put off by it, depending on who they are?).

 

[Tractor Wheal]

The club could request separate PCC calculations - and hopefully they'll receive a reminder that they should not be setting the course up this way.

The PCC is calculated overnight. How does requesting separate PCC work in practice please?

 

[jim8flog]

My Sunday round was general play!

Saturday there was an arranged comp.

Ive just never seen a PCC kick in on a non-comp day at my place before this Sunday - and for it to be 3 seems pretty wild to me!

We get more than 40 General Play cards in a day my last general play score was subject to a PCC and there was no comp on that day.

 

[Bdill93]

We get more than 40 General Play cards in a day my last general play score was subject to a PCC and there was no comp on that day.

I appreciate it could have been all GP cards - absolutely - but it would be more down to our rough than conditions out of the clubs control (weather) atm and PCC seems to reflect that too? Can a club turn off the PCC function if its new approach is to have this long rough permanently or would a course need re-rating?

I'm not trying to create arguments, I'm asking for suggestions that I could put to our committee to help? Sunday was glorious golfing weather

 

[Orikoru]

On Saturday I played in the peeing rain - the competition was won with 33 points. PCC was still 0.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

On Saturday I played in the peeing rain - the competition was won with 33 points. PCC was still 0.

As I pointed out earlier, They may have been a few 40 point equivalent general play cards put in

 

[Orikoru]

As I pointed out earlier, They may have been a few 40 point equivalent general play cards put in

Seems unlikely. Only an idiot would've been out playing in those conditions.

 

[D-S]

A local club was running a roll up Stableford for members in good weather with the course in good condition, set up for a normal midweek day. On the same day a society played in the afternoon after quite a few drinks in the clubhouse. They were out just for a laugh but all put GP cards in. The PCC went up to 3 due to the society being not only all over the place but also being the vast majority of qualifying scores for the day - the few members who played in their midweek Stableford all had unnaturally low differentials due to the PCC. It’s just the way the system works.

 

[Orikoru]

A local club was running a roll up Stableford for members in good weather with the course in good condition, set up for a normal midweek day. On the same day a society played in the afternoon after quite a few drinks in the clubhouse. They were out just for a laugh but all put GP cards in. The PCC went up to 3 due to the society being not only all over the place but also being the vast majority of qualifying scores for the day - the few members who played in their midweek Stableford all had unnaturally low differentials due to the PCC. It’s just the way the system works.

Or doesn't - as the topic title suggests.

 

[sjw]

Scratching my head this season looking at the incredible scores coming in.
So I had a look back through the results.
Turns out that with the exception of our Club Champs, which was a Gross comp, nobody with a handicap under 16 has won a comp all season.
Indeed the vast majority of the top 5 finishers in all comps have had handicaps in excess of 20.
Ok, the ground conditions have favoured the shorter hitters, but really!!!
It seems to me, once a handicap exceeds 18 anyone lower than that will struggle to compete.

Apart from the usual suspects who i'm sure are maintaining a high handicap which sadly exist at all clubs, it's quite incredible.
As policing handicaps on an individual basis is impossible, I think the only answer is to split every comp into handicap divisions & split the prize pot accordingly.

Thoughts?

Maybe your club has a load of vanity handicappers

 

[wjemather]

I appreciate it could have been all GP cards - absolutely - but it would be more down to our rough than conditions out of the clubs control (weather) atm and PCC seems to reflect that too? Can a club turn off the PCC function if its new approach is to have this long rough permanently or would a course need re-rating?

I'm not trying to create arguments, I'm asking for suggestions that I could put to our committee to help? Sunday was glorious golfing weather

No, clubs cannot turn off PCC. If the course is permanently substantially different from how it was rated, it must be re-rated.

 

[Swango1980]

I appreciate it could have been all GP cards - absolutely - but it would be more down to our rough than conditions out of the clubs control (weather) atm and PCC seems to reflect that too? Can a club turn off the PCC function if its new approach is to have this long rough permanently or would a course need re-rating?

I'm not trying to create arguments, I'm asking for suggestions that I could put to our committee to help? Sunday was glorious golfing weather

They cannot do this, and I think you gave one very good reason why this is, when you said earlier "The committee have no clue at my place and It wont change".

If they have no clue about some of the basics, God forbid we'd expect them to understand PCC (a formula that isn't published, and even if it was very unlikely the authorities would want to give Clubs the power to simply turn it on and off at their discretion)

 

[Alan Clifford]

Another whinge for pcc. 2 comps on Sunday, one mens, one womens. Womens course set up hard as nails all back tees forced carries maximised, all trouble brought into play, they all got hammered by rain in the morning but despite this massive entry to well liked open event. Mens set up in exact opposite way, only a few played in still sunshine and shot the lights out. PCC went to +3 for men and women despite in effect 2 comps on two a different courses....

Surely courses/tees shouldn't be set up for men and women? There should be tees that anyone can play from without reference to the style of their naught bits.

 

[Alan Clifford]

No...because in Matchplay your actual score doesn't matter...it just needs to be one less than the other guy.
If you're 15 feet away and you've got 2 putts to win the hole then you're likely not going for the 1 putt...so you're not trying to make the best possible score....
Likewise if you've got a 10 footer for a half you're not going to worry about the one coming back...

Personally, I agree with that, But in other jurisdictions, matchplay scores can be / have to be submitted for handicap. What's more, if I play a matchplay in South Africa, I can submit it for handicap at England Golf

 

[IanM]

Last two comp days at St P the pcc has been 3 and 2.

Last year any change from zero was as rare as humility from Greg Norman

 

[sweaty sock]

Surely courses/tees shouldn't be set up for men and women? There should be tees that anyone can play from without reference to the style of their naught bits.

Why of course, but that doesnt stop the comp for men stipulating that its to be played from the pink unicorn tees and the comp for women to be played from the Black Death tees...

The correct answer as described above was for the club to request a seperate pcc for each comp. Problem solved.