What level what a LPGA player be in the men's game?

[BiMGuy]

Ladies golf isn't like football, rugby, cricket etc where they are relatively new to being professional and widely played. Ladies pro golf has been around for decades, it is already a mature sport.

I’d say it’s relatively new to attracting young girls to playing golf.

It’s not that long ago that women didn’t have equal access to golf facilities. They still don’t in some places. So they haven’t had the same opportunity to develop.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A point Bronte Law made in her chat with Iona Stephens was that women play on relatively harder courses than men…why relatively harder? Because women simply physically can’t hit the ball as far as men - that’s just genetics - and so even though courses are shorter for them than those set up for the men, they still end up playing more long irons and fairway clubs for their second shots, and even we lowly amateurs know that that is harder.

She desperately wants Ladies golf to get to the point where it is considered and appreciated as a sport in its own right - she considers that the skills the top ladies have to use are deployed at a level at least equal to those of the men.

It‘s a very interesting chat.

 

[Mel Smooth]

The end goal should be mixed professional competitions whereby the course is set up to compensate for the distance differential that men have over women. With the handicapping system it's pretty straightforward to put everybody on a level playing field but off scratch, all you can do is reduce the distance of the course for women. I'm sure there's more than enough data available now though to determine where that balancing point should be.

When Linn Grant won the Scandinavian Mixed last year, the best golfer on the weekend won - is that fair? If so, it's proof that men and women can compete together at a proffesional level.


Hopefully I'm around long enough to see a mixed major. I should be at 52, but I'm not confident.

 

[sunshine]

The end goal should be mixed professional competitions whereby the course is set up to compensate for the distance differential that men have over women. With the handicapping system it's pretty straightforward to put everybody on a level playing field but off scratch, all you can do is reduce the distance of the course for women.

Why is this an end goal in your mind?

This doesn't sound appealing to me. I don't see other sports doing this, which is probably a good clue. Let's have a mixed 100m sprint in the Olympics, but the women only need to run 90m to even it up. Or mixed high jump but the women get a step ladder.

I like watching women's golf, but it's different from men's golf and that's ok. It doesn't need to involve men in a mixed comp to give it credibility.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Why is this an end goal in your mind?

This doesn't sound appealing to me. I don't see other sports doing this, which is probably a good clue. Let's have a mixed 100m sprint in the Olympics, but the women only need to run 90m to even it up. Or mixed high jump but the women get a step ladder.

I like watching women's golf, but it's different from men's golf and that's ok. It doesn't need to involve men in a mixed comp to give it credibility.

Because I'd like to see golf helping to break down barriers. The sport is played as a mixed event globally at amateur level - and that should be extended into the proffesional game. There's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be - is there (aside from people's views of what they want to see).

From the perspective of parity, it would be quite simple to establish what the distance advantage is for men over women, and compensate for that with tee positions - there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that - as that is a fundamental aspect of golf and something we all accept.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ladies Golf at a Professional level stands alone - why do we need to have the majors mixed

Just like in all the other sports there are established Ladies Majors and high level competitions

They are broadcast on Telly , they have sponsers, they have a very good level of prize money

The Open at Walton Heath has a prize fund of £6mil with the winner collecting over a cool million

If people want to watch the ladies golf they can , if they want to watch the men’s golf they can - choice , you will go nowhere forcing the viewers to watch either by putting them together

What about all those men or ladies that will miss out playing in the events because half the field is now taken up by the opposite sex



As for the initial OP

A number of the top ladies have played in men’s events over the years - I’m not aware of any that have managed to make the cut.

 

[IanM]

Because I'd like to see golf helping to break down barriers. The sport is played as a mixed event globally at amateur level - and that should be extended into the proffesional game. There's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be - is there (aside from people's views of what they want to see).

From the perspective of parity, it would be quite simple to establish what the distance advantage is for men over women, and compensate for that with tee positions - there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that - as that is a fundamental aspect of golf and something we all accept.

I agree. It doesn't need to be one or the other either. There are 52 weeks a year, plenty of room for more variety in the existing weekly diet of golf tournaments.

Just needs the will to do it, and some imagination.

 

[Mel Smooth]

If people want to watch the ladies golf they can , if they want to watch the men’s golf they can - choice , you will go nowhere forcing the viewers to watch either by putting them together

And if people want to watch a mixed event...?

This, despite millions of golfers worldwide playing golf recreationaly, and competitively as a mixed sex game.

People are just peddling the accepted view of what the game should be, rather than thinking what it could be..

When Linn Grant won last year, it grabbed people's attention and was a pretty hot topic, despite being a fairly low key DPWT event - imagine if you had a similar event with the worlds best from both sexes competing for the same prize.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The end goal should be mixed professional competitions whereby the course is set up to compensate for the distance differential that men have over women. With the handicapping system it's pretty straightforward to put everybody on a level playing field but off scratch, all you can do is reduce the distance of the course for women. I'm sure there's more than enough data available now though to determine where that balancing point should be.

When Linn Grant won the Scandinavian Mixed last year, the best golfer on the weekend won - is that fair? If so, it's proof that men and women can compete together at a proffesional level.


Hopefully I'm around long enough to see a mixed major. I should be at 52, but I'm not confident.

When people watch a pro tournament they want to see the best golfer over those few days win. They don't want to see a handicap event, which effectively is what you are asking for. I certainly don't. As a novelty the Scandinavian event works, but roll it out further and I don't believe it would.

Sport at pro level has to ultimately stand on it's own. Support for a while but then it sinks or swims by market forces.

 

[IanM]

....think of it as an investment in "growing the game."

As I said. Doesn't have to be every week!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And if people want to watch a mixed event...?

This, despite millions of golfers worldwide playing golf recreationaly, and competitively as a mixed sex game.

People are just peddling the accepted view of what the game should be, rather than thinking what it could be..

When Linn Grant won last year, it grabbed people's attention and was a pretty hot topic, despite being a fairly low key DPWT event - imagine if you had a similar event with the worlds best from both sexes competing for the same prize.

How many people want to watch a mixed event ?

A very small minority I suspect

Linn Grant did well winning the event but from what I recall there was prob one top 50 player


If there is such a big appetite for it then it would happen- but it doesn’t because the majority don’t want it

It works at club level as such because it’s handicaps but how many mixed scratch events are there at peoples clubs

People aren’t going to want to watch a HC event

Why do we need to look to get everything together? That would actually kill the sport at the highest level - there is no major desire for it and certainly not at the majors

This is professional sport and they need to stand alone

 

[Backsticks]

Because I'd like to see golf helping to break down barriers. The sport is played as a mixed event globally at amateur level - and that should be extended into the proffesional game. There's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be - is there (aside from people's views of what they want to see).

From the perspective of parity, it would be quite simple to establish what the distance advantage is for men over women, and compensate for that with tee positions - there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that - as that is a fundamental aspect of golf and something we all accept.

The professional game is a business, albeit with some spinoffs like all commercial organisations. Or even political in the case of Saudi, Bahrain, China, etc.
It is not altruistic at the exteme tip of the game.
Barriers are for the usga, the r&A, and amateur governing bodies to breakdown and improve inclusion.
Pro golf with men and ladies would be handicapped golf. The men would be handicapped by playing a longer course. That is no longer true open elite sport. Its credibility is gone.
It possibly appeals to a certain part of our younger woke snowflake generations that strugle to accept that there are differences between the sexes. But there are. Men and women cannot compete together (other than things like horse events or motor racing, where the other is the prime determinant in the outcome). The differences are unavoidable, and separation in elite sport is essential.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

Why is this an end goal in your mind?

This doesn't sound appealing to me. I don't see other sports doing this, which is probably a good clue. Let's have a mixed 100m sprint in the Olympics, but the women only need to run 90m to even it up. Or mixed high jump but the women get a step ladder.

I like watching women's golf, but it's different from men's golf and that's ok. It doesn't need to involve men in a mixed comp to give it credibility.

Slightly different but they do have the mixed relays in athletics and swimming now which i think are good and add a different dimension to tactics and how the race unfolds given the gap between the sexes.

Would love to see a mixed matchplay (perhaps the presidents cup is the starting point) but i'm happy to keep the men's and women's majors separate. As Bronte i think is pushing, it's a different game and i don't think it helps their brand to be compared to the men or put on tees 100 yards up.

 

[Slab]

Golf, like virtually every other sport/game was conceived & invented by men, with the games’ purpose/objective set by men, to be played within rules/parameters defined and written by men with equipment designed & built by men on a course/court size suited to men and (almost exclusively) for men to play… all with zero consideration to womens participation

I’m not saying the above was right/wrong at that time, its the way it happened… but it sure is a helluva head start for Man… but then some folks on the internet try to discuss how/when/if the two sexes can/will/should ever compete/contest in a game men invented

 

[D-S]

As for the initial OP

A number of the top ladies have played in men’s events over the years - I’m not aware of any that have managed to make the cut.

Babe Zaharis did, although this pales into insignificance compared with her other achievements.

Babe Didrikson Zaharias - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rulefan]

Babe Zaharis did, although this pales into insignificance compared with her other achievements.

https://en.w[S]a[/S]ikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Didrikson_Zaharias

I think the link is mistyped

Babe Didrikson Zaharias - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[D-S]

I think the link is mistyped

Babe Didrikson Zaharias - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks, fixed now - not sure how this can happen as I copied and pasted it!

 

[sunshine]

despite millions of golfers worldwide playing golf recreationaly, and competitively as a mixed sex game.

Healthy dose of hyperbole here. How many people play mixed sex golf? In the UK I’d guess less than 5%, regularly even less. Same in US and Australia. Ok in Spain, Germany etc it’s more common for couples to play together (usually retired) but those are tiny markets.

So why would there be demand for a mixed event when only a few thousand people play it worldwide.

 

[Backsticks]

It would make pro events more non truly competition events, without sporting credibility. Sort of like....LIV. Maybe LIV could mutate to be a mixed sex exhibition touring circus ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Healthy dose of hyperbole here. How many people play mixed sex golf? In the UK I’d guess less than 5%, regularly even less. Same in US and Australia. Ok in Spain, Germany etc it’s more common for couples to play together (usually retired) but those are tiny markets.

So why would there be demand for a mixed event when only a few thousand people play it worldwide.

A few thousand people worldwide!!!

Your absolutely miles off mate, quite ironic that you’ve chosen to accuse me of hyperbole.

Anyway, if there were more mixed events, do you not see that would lead to more people playing golf in mixed groups - make it more ‘acceptable’

There’s clearly an issue on that front, judging by some of the views posted on this forum.