What level what a LPGA player be in the men's game?

[Deleted member 15344]

Although to be fair, and more pertinent to the original point, roughly speaking Europe has similar numbers of courses to the UK and Ireland - most of these courses will follow the continental model of golf not being so gender split/segregated as UK/Ire, the relatively small nature of the tourist led Spanish golf market doesn’t change this. So potentially the acceptance of mixed golf and competitions is greater in these ‘newer‘ markets just as it is in ‘newer’ clubs in England.

I think it’s prob a decent shout that newer clubs and newer markets will prob have more mixed golf for a few reasons

 

[Mel Smooth]

So naive. Golf as a sport barely registers in the Spanish consciousness, despite them having some legendary players.

Spain is a tiny golf market. D-S has provided evidence: 350 golf courses in Spain. Getting on for 3,000 in the UK. Over 16,000 in the US. Number of courses is a better indicator of popularity. In Spain, you need a golf licence to play at a course, so everyone who plays one round a year is covered by the federation. Obviously we have nothing like that in the UK so the golf associations only count members of recognised clubs.

I have a TaylorMade business plan on my desk. The Spanish market doesn't even get a mention.

Ok mate. Well seen as Taylor Made don't have a business plan for Spain (yeah right?), we can conclude it's ok for some of you to stick around in 1975 and maintain gender segregation at your golf clubs.

I'll bow out now - I think I, and others have proved my point - forward thinking clubs will adapt practices that align with modern thinking and non-discriminatory policies in the way they run their clubs.
Traditional, established members clubs are reluctant to change because the "Smithers-Watkins Trophy", is for Gentlemen only, and there aren't enough people within those clubs to challenge that thinking.

I know where I'd rather spend my social time, and I'm grateful I'm at a club that I don't have to feel any kind of guilt over the social standards it operates under.

 

[wjemather]

I think it’s prob a decent shout that newer clubs and newer markets will prob have more mixed golf for a few reasons

It's likely they have fewer people citing "tradition", "respect the originator" and other such guff as good reasons for maintaining as male only an environment as possible. Thankfully many older, more established clubs in traditional markets are not being held back by these people; sadly, some are.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's likely they have fewer people citing "tradition", "respect the originator" and other such guff as good reasons for maintaining as male only an environment as possible. Thankfully many older, more established clubs in traditional markets are not being held back by these people; sadly, some are.

Why are you concentrating on the idea it’s about “maintaining as male only environment” ?

Whilst a number of our board comps have changed to allow all members and in fact beyond the club champs and scratch KO the main club board comps are open to all

Where as the Ladies Board comps - none have changed to allow all to enter and in fact none of the medals and Stablefords have changed to allow to enter


I’m not sure what clubs you believe are being “held” back as I suspect the ones not doing many changes will be the ones that will be surviving regardless due to the club and course reputation

 

[sunshine]

Ok mate. Well seen as Taylor Made don't have a business plan for Spain (yeah right?), we can conclude it's ok for some of you to stick around in 1975 and maintain gender segregation at your golf clubs.

I'll bow out now - I think I, and others have proved my point - forward thinking clubs will adapt practices that align with modern thinking and non-discriminatory policies in the way they run their clubs.
Traditional, established members clubs are reluctant to change because the "Smithers-Watkins Trophy", is for Gentlemen only, and there aren't enough people within those clubs to challenge that thinking.

I know where I'd rather spend my social time, and I'm grateful I'm at a club that I don't have to feel any kind of guilt over the social standards it operates under.

As usual you completely miss the point

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Most of those comps stay the way they are because the members respect the originator of the competition rules that he set out

But comps still make subtle changes if they are lacking participation for example and they need a refresh - some stop

We have that within our club - some historic comps have changed ,

Most people turn out on a Saturday because that is the day they can play. They work midweek, they play in the Saturday comp. They don't care what it's called, they just want their game. That's the category I'm in, I'm not alone. We don't care who the originator was, the rules they set out. You are kidding yourself if you think golfers do care.

 

[Hobbit]

Ok mate. Well seen as Taylor Made don't have a business plan for Spain (yeah right?), we can conclude it's ok for some of you to stick around in 1975 and maintain gender segregation at your golf clubs.

I'll bow out now - I think I, and others have proved my point - forward thinking clubs will adapt practices that align with modern thinking and non-discriminatory policies in the way they run their clubs.
Traditional, established members clubs are reluctant to change because the "Smithers-Watkins Trophy", is for Gentlemen only, and there aren't enough people within those clubs to challenge that thinking.

I know where I'd rather spend my social time, and I'm grateful I'm at a club that I don't have to feel any kind of guilt over the social standards it operates under.

I think your last sentence is probably uncomfortable for many older (traditional) men, or it should be. I wish I had a £ for every time in the late 70’s through to the noughties Mrs H couldn’t come into the gentleman’s bar to let me know she had arrived to pick me up. And then in the early noughties she worked behind the club bar for 15mins just so she could see our son receive his first golf prize - men only… I dare say those days are rare now in terms of club rules but there’s still the lingering attitudes.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Most people turn out on a Saturday because that is the day they can play. They work midweek, they play in the Saturday comp. They don't care what it's called, they just want their game. That's the category I'm in, I'm not alone. We don't care who the originator was, the rules they set out. You are kidding yourself if you think golfers do care.

Everyone is different

And seeing how people react at prize giving or when they get their name on a board would suggest to me there are people that do care

I certainly take pride in some board comps I have won because it means I’m part of the history of the club I’m a member at and value that membership. For me and many others it’s more than just somewhere to play golf

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Thanks. Good to know. So people are playing mixed golf every week not just occasionally?

Almost every week. Plus our Academy (learners) is mixed and so when I take two or three academy members out for a few holes that group can equally be mixed (depending on numbers). Plus we try and make our teams in our periodic Academy Texas Scrambles mixed.

 

[garyinderry]

Women can play any time they like at our club. They can play in a 3 ball with 3 men but still be in the women's competition.

The women do tend to stick together.

At my brothers place, the women take over on a Tuesday. Woe betide any man daring to step foot on the course when they are out in their competition. Seems a strange set up to me.

 

[wjemather]

Most people turn out on a Saturday because that is the day they can play. They work midweek, they play in the Saturday comp. They don't care what it's called, they just want their game. That's the category I'm in, I'm not alone. We don't care who the originator was, the rules they set out. You are kidding yourself if you think golfers do care.

Everyone is different

And seeing how people react at prize giving or when they get their name on a board would suggest to me there are people that do care

About the winning, only.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Against each other, the women would even be a factor. They would be collectively last. They may as well not he there.

Someone has to finish last. Oddly in all male competitions it's always men. What are they playing at?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

About the winning, only.

What ?

Yes people care about winning their clubs board comps - some people take pride in it

 

[wjemather]

What ?

Yes people care about winning their clubs board comps - some people take pride in it

You're still ignoring the point being made and arguing an entirely different one.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You're still ignoring the point being made and arguing an entirely different one.

“You are kidding yourself if you think golfers do care”

Do you mean this one ?

 

[wjemather]

“You are kidding yourself if you think golfers do care”

Do you mean this one ?

Context matters.

"We don't care who the originator was, the rules they set out. You are kidding yourself if you think golfers do care."

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Context matters.

"We don't care who the originator was, the rules they set out. You are kidding yourself if you think golfers do care."

And as I said - people do care

They care who the originator was and care about the rules that person set out

As i said not everyone is the same. It really is that simple

 

[AmandaJR]

So if Major Tompkins-Smythe, Club Captain 1902, declared a new board competition for white men only we continue with that out of respect for the originator?

 

[Backsticks]

So if Major Tompkins-Smythe, Club Captain 1902, declared a new board competition for white men only we continue with that out of respect for the originator?

No, because colour is not just grounds for exclusion. In sport, sex, is.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

And as I said - people do care

They care who the originator was and care about the rules that person set out

As i said not everyone is the same. It really is that simple

Are all these people that care so much playing with 80 year old equipment to keep within the spirit of the competition?

It’s a funny thing tradition. No one really cares about it until it can be used to support someone’s point of view. As I have said before. ‘It’s Tradition’ is quite often trotted out by people with a bag full of carbon fibre and titanium clubs and a watch that uses satellites to tell them how far they need to hit the ball.