What level what a LPGA player be in the men's game?

[sunshine]

It is true that many women at clubs don't want to play with the men. In some respects I understand that. Quite often I've found myself waiting for the guys to tee off, walk forwards to the red tees and then they wander along, clubs clanking chatting about their shot. Some even don't bother to stop walking forwards. As it can often be the way that the female plays many shots first it can become tiring and not a pleasant experience.

Of course that's not by any means all male golfers but it's happened to me enough times and I imagine the shorter hitting ladies get fed up quite quickly.

Of course there are also plenty of women who just want to play with their pals and talk all things WI and grandchildren (which I find equally uninviting)!!

I find it a bit patronising that certain posters are insisting that the women need to play mixed events, as if men must be involved to give it credibility. I think women's golf is perfectly credible.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Everyone is different but the main thing is that everyone should have equal opportunity and equal access and that people shouldn’t assume that certain genders only want to play on certain days at certain times.

Yes that’s not the issue that’s being discussed

Everyone should have the same access to the club etc ( depending on membership category etc)

But that’s not what we appear to be talking about

It’s more about making more mixed comps both at the club level and pro level

 

[sunshine]

A few thousand people worldwide!!!

Your absolutely miles off mate, quite ironic that you’ve chosen to accuse me of hyperbole.

Phil has given some good examples based on reality. Personally, my golf club has about 600 members but there's only one couple I regularly see playing together. Whenever there is a mixed event it is very poorly attended, only a handful of retired couples seem to enter.

What's your evidence of the popularity of mixed golf?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Phil has given some good examples based on reality. Personally, my golf club has about 600 members but there's only one couple I regularly see playing together. Whenever there is a mixed event it is very poorly attended, only a handful of retired couples seem to enter.

What's your evidence of the popularity of mixed golf?

As previously stated, my club has no gender separation apart from the toilet facilities.
The Sunday comp was won by a bloke at the weekend, 2nd place was a lady called Denise. She’s the vice captain and will be club captain next year..
One of the ladies also was in the 2’s pot.
Played in a few societies in Spain where it was always mixed, and there were loads of mixed groups out on the courses at any time ( at a guess, I’d say 1 in every 3 or 4 would be mixed)
Junior golf here is of course mixed as well up to a certain point, again, as it was in Spain. When Jamie competed over there it would often be with girls in the same group as him.
Played a charity event at the weekend - again, mixed.

So, quite a broad experience of witnessing mixed golf at various ages and levels.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As previously stated, my club has no gender separation apart from the toilet facilities.
The Sunday comp was won by a bloke at the weekend, 2nd place was a lady called Denise. She’s the vice captain and will be club captain next year..
One of the ladies also was in the 2’s pot.
Played in a few societies in Spain where it was always mixed, and there were loads of mixed groups out on the courses at any time ( at a guess, I’d say 1 in every 3 or 4 would be mixed)
Junior golf here is of course mixed as well up to a certain point, again, as it was in Spain. When Jamie competed over there it would often be with girls in the same group as him.
Played a charity event at the weekend - again, mixed.

So, quite a broad experience of witnessing mixed golf at various ages and levels.

So is it worth getting a bit more information

So your club championship is mixed of scratch ?


There is no single sex events at all whether that be male or female only


Is it a established members club with board comps etc


And what sort membership numbers are we talking here

Who looks after the comps and club

 

[sunshine]

As previously stated, my club has no gender separation apart from the toilet facilities.
The Sunday comp was won by a bloke at the weekend, 2nd place was a lady called Denise. She’s the vice captain and will be club captain next year..
One of the ladies also was in the 2’s pot.
Played in a few societies in Spain where it was always mixed, and there were loads of mixed groups out on the courses at any time ( at a guess, I’d say 1 in every 3 or 4 would be mixed)
Junior golf here is of course mixed as well up to a certain point, again, as it was in Spain. When Jamie competed over there it would often be with girls in the same group as him.
Played a charity event at the weekend - again, mixed.

So, quite a broad experience of witnessing mixed golf at various ages and levels.

1. How popular is mixed golf at your club? How many women and men were in the comp on Sunday?

2. Spain: tiny market as already mentioned so not statistically significant.

You seem to be doing that thing again that you kept doing on the liv thread, where you take a small sample size that supports your opinion, and conflate it to the whole population.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Did they just happen to be English or was entry restricted

It was England U18 and not an open comp.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Phil has given some good examples based on reality. Personally, my golf club has about 600 members but there's only one couple I regularly see playing together. Whenever there is a mixed event it is very poorly attended, only a handful of retired couples seem to enter.

What's your evidence of the popularity of mixed golf?

Very popular at my club. Quite a few fixed comps, couple of them being ‘board’ events, and almost always well subscribed…and our mixed opens were fully subscribed.

 

[Mel Smooth]

So is it worth getting a bit more information

So your club championship is mixed of scratch ?


There is no single sex events at all whether that be male or female only


Is it a established members club with board comps etc


And what sort membership numbers are we talking here

Who looks after the comps and club

Club championship is open to all members- off scratch yes - although only a small number of people enter - which I think is as much down to the fact that it's a long course, and a long walk, 2 rounds in a day would be a challenge for anybody.


There are NO single sex events at all.


The club is owned by a company - although I have no idea what that has to do with sexually discriminating against the members. We have board comps - I'll link you our calendar so you can have a look if it helps satisfy your curiosity..

https://www.wvgc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Fixture-list-2023.pdf

I don't know how many members we have - I'd say around 500 but would have to look it up.

The club is run by a team of staff, who report to the owners, and the comps are organised through that team along with a small committee to represent the members interests.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Club championship is open to all members- off scratch yes - although only a small number of people enter - which I think is as much down to the fact that it's a long course, and a long walk, 2 rounds in a day would be a challenge for anybody.


There are NO single sex events at all.


The club is owned by a company - although I have no idea what that has to do with sexually discriminating against the members. We have board comps - I'll link you our calendar so you can have a look if it helps satisfy your curiosity..

https://www.wvgc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Fixture-list-2023.pdf

I don't know how many members we have - I'd say around 500 but would have to look it up.

The club is run by a team of staff, who report to the owners, and the comps are organised through that team along with a small committee to represent the members interests.

So you have club scratch championships mixed ? All of scratch ? How many ladies play in it


Not sure what you about sexual discrimination as it’s been shown that single sex competitions aren’t discriminatory

It is an interesting set up with the majority comps Stablefords and medals but I think that’s standard with clubs that opened in the last 20/30 years and with proprietary clubs I suspect a lot the comps merge to allow more space for tee times for visitors - hence no ladies or men’s sections

Most membership clubs will be run very differently with competitions established over 50 plus years within both sections of a members club - we have board comps over 80 years old

And it’s that way because that’s what the members want - and it’s the same with all members clubs - hence why your scenario will suit your members but it won’t suit many others.

 

[Mel Smooth]

1. How popular is mixed golf at your club? How many women and men were in the comp on Sunday?

2. Spain: tiny market as already mentioned so not statistically significant.

You seem to be doing that thing again that you kept doing on the liv thread, where you take a small sample size that supports your opinion, and conflate it to the whole population.

Spain is not a tiny market - I'd love to see your evidence of that - and how it compares to the UK.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Spain is not a tiny market - I'd love to see your evidence of that - and how it compares to the UK.

Isn’t Spain more of a holiday destination for golfers

Clubs will have ex Pat and some local memberships but it’s not going to be the same level as the Uk

Think there is around 350 clubs in Spain and around 1900 in the UK

 

[Slab]

It was England U18 and not an open comp.

Ah, so not players playing/living in England or players registered with England golf, but actually just English only players

Sorry not how I read it, my mistake

 

[Mel Smooth]

Isn’t Spain more of a holiday destination for golfers

Clubs will have ex Pat and some local memberships but it’s not going to be the same level as the Uk

Think there is around 350 clubs in Spain and around 1900 in the UK

There are over a million federated golfers in Spain Phil, a respectable number for the population.


Compare that to the number of members her in England - around 800,00?

On top of that, both countries have of course recreational golfers - so it's fair to conclude - Spain isn't a tiny market.

 

[D-S]

Isn’t Spain more of a holiday destination for golfers

Clubs will have ex Pat and some local memberships but it’s not going to be the same level as the Uk

Think there is around 350 clubs in Spain and around 1900 in the UK

There are around 1900 courses in England, 560 in Scotland and 140 odd in Wales.

The totally mixed golf is far more common in Europe where Scandinavia has over 800, Germany has 730, France over 600 and Netherlands has 250 - these are not major golf tourist destinations. The touristic Spain and Portugal are smaller than you would think with 350 and 76 respectively.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

And it’s that way because that’s what the members want - and it’s the same with all members clubs - hence why your scenario will suit your members but it won’t suit many others.

To be fair here, there are an awful lot of comps at clubs played as they are, not because members want them that way but because they've always been that way. Do enough members feel strongly enough to push for change? Probably not.

Most people will grumble and accept the status quo. That doesn't mean it is what members want though. Apathy rules okay .

The benefit of newer clubs is that they are not held back by history and they can have their fixtures how they want for modern times.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There are over a million federated golfers in Spain Phil, a respectable number for the population.


Compare that to the number of members her in England - around 800,00?

On top of that, both countries have of course recreational golfers - so it's fair to conclude - Spain isn't a tiny market.

Golf in Europe - Number of Registered Players

The 2021 European Golf Participation Report showed an encouraging increase in the number of registered players across the continent. 35 of the EGA’s 49 members saw growth in participation despite the pandemic. But which of these countries currently has the most registered players?

www.ega-golf.ch

Not sure what the difference between a registered or federated golfer is

Mixed golf may well be more popular on the continent - but it’s not imo replicated across the UK

To be fair here, there are an awful lot of comps at clubs played as they are, not because members want them that way but because they've always been that way. Do enough members feel strongly enough to push for change? Probably not.

Most people will grumble and accept the status quo. That doesn't mean it is what members want though. Apathy rules okay .

The benefit of newer clubs is that they are not held back by history and they can have their fixtures how they want for modern times.

Most of those comps stay the way they are because the members respect the originator of the competition rules that he set out

But comps still make subtle changes if they are lacking participation for example and they need a refresh - some stop

We have that within our club - some historic comps have changed , some stopped

Members clubs always have people with voices and opinions and willing to share that - that’s how things change

And yep there will always be those that will grumble at everything

Newer clubs on the whole aren’t mainly members clubs - more pay and play or single owned course for profit so will be run a little differently and for most part run for the benefit of getting people onto the course

 

[sunshine]

Very popular at my club. Quite a few fixed comps, couple of them being ‘board’ events, and almost always well subscribed…and our mixed opens were fully subscribed.

Thanks. Good to know. So people are playing mixed golf every week not just occasionally?

 

[sunshine]

Spain is not a tiny market - I'd love to see your evidence of that - and how it compares to the UK.

So naive. Golf as a sport barely registers in the Spanish consciousness, despite them having some legendary players.

Spain is a tiny golf market. D-S has provided evidence: 350 golf courses in Spain. Getting on for 3,000 in the UK. Over 16,000 in the US. Number of courses is a better indicator of popularity. In Spain, you need a golf licence to play at a course, so everyone who plays one round a year is covered by the federation. Obviously we have nothing like that in the UK so the golf associations only count members of recognised clubs.

I have a TaylorMade business plan on my desk. The Spanish market doesn't even get a mention.

 

[D-S]

So naive. Golf as a sport barely registers in the Spanish consciousness, despite them having some legendary players.

Spain is a tiny golf market. D-S has provided evidence: 350 golf courses in Spain. Getting on for 3,000 in the UK. Over 16,000 in the US. Number of courses is a better indicator of popularity. In Spain, you need a golf licence to play at a course, so everyone who plays one round a year is covered by the federation. Obviously we have nothing like that in the UK so the golf associations only count members of recognised clubs.

I have a TaylorMade business plan on my desk. The Spanish market doesn't even get a mention.

Although to be fair, and more pertinent to the original point, roughly speaking Europe has similar numbers of courses to the UK and Ireland - most of these courses will follow the continental model of golf not being so gender split/segregated as UK/Ire, the relatively small nature of the tourist led Spanish golf market doesn’t change this. So potentially the acceptance of mixed golf and competitions is greater in these ‘newer‘ markets just as it is in ‘newer’ clubs in England.