What’s you involvement in the rules?

[jim8flog]

That's an interesting description of non rules committee members.

I passed my PGA rules exam (with merit) in 2006 but would never consider myself an expert, I'm just not that interested.
I turned pro to learn how to teach better and to play scratch golf, therefore actually winning stuff as I got better, not to sit at home ploughing through a dreary book.
But as far as the rules are concerned I learned early, never give a decision unless I was absolutely certain I was right and I could back it up with the book.
But as the years roll on, I have fallen behind the latest changes so I just stay clear of most ''discussions''

One comment I'd like to direct to the experts.....
Not everyone who plays golf is as keen on the rules as you are and coming across as slightly patronising never helps the situation

I have also learnt not to discuss the rules with PGA Pros who qualified many years ago but have not kept up with the changes.
It does bug me a little when players go in to the pro shop with rules queries and get given an out date or wrong answer.

 

[Jigger]

One comment I'd like to direct to the experts.....
Not everyone who plays golf is as keen on the rules as you are and coming across as slightly patronising never helps the situation

Yep, I’ve stuck my tin hat one a few times when mentioning something from an average golfer in a friendly perspective. I would say it‘s probably the lesser experts having a go at me. The greater experts are probably just sat there shaking their heads. ?

 

[rulie]

In normal (casual) play, I will help when asked, otherwise I just play my game. The groups that I normally play in know my status and do ask questions, often not related to a current situation but just a question. My philosophy as a referee is to help the players play within the Rules. I don’t have a whistle or wear a special shirt. ?

 

[Jigger]

In normal (casual) play, I will help when asked, otherwise I just play my game. The groups that I normally play in know my status and do ask questions, often not related to a current situation but just a question. My philosophy as a referee is to help the players play within the Rules. I don’t have a whistle or wear a special shirt. ?

It would be funny seeing someone like you sending someone off!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

On reflection about why I am interested in the rules, and in understanding them as fully as I can, I think it’s because of the nature of golf, and maybe me.

Much about our game requires honesty and integrity of the individual, and I know that I absolutely do not want to come off the course after a competitive round, of any nature, to discover that I had inadvertently broken a rule and so had not been able to call myself out on it to the others I was with. I would feel, and be, obliged to raise my rule breach and accept the consequences. I don’t carry feelings of guilt lightly.

Not being able to take advantage of a rule I was unaware about is the other side of the coin, but I wouldn’t beat myself up about that, just take it as a learning point.

note…I’ve been worrying about relief I took at one point in my match last weekend. On reflection I have been thinking I’d got it wrong..and was not good with that feeling (even though I lost the hole). I have just checked the rules and I am ok, and so feelings of guilt gone. But I had to have a reasonable awareness of the rules to 1) realise afterwards that I may have breached, and 2) know where to look in rules to check one way or the other.

 

[Slab]

I'm just your (below) average player that didn't want to screw up in comps

Our local (qualified) rules guy gives up a lot of his time running level 1 and 2 exams around the various clubs, so lots of us have done at least level 1, just seems rude to not sit the exam when he's prepared to put himself out time and again... and I improved my own knowledge... Even 'saved' myself a shot on the very next round I played just because the exact scenario happened to be in the exam

Nothing to lose really

 

[Billysboots]

• Penalty for having a practice swing on the tee
• Penalty for picking a rake out of a bunker before my shot, as my hand touched the rake as the rake touched the sand, thus technically in breach of testing the sand
• Going to bag to get a provisional ball, and told I am not allowed to play a provisional as I have left the tee box
• Somebody picking up in a medal (thought it was Stableford), and immediately told they are disqualified from the competition, instead of playing on under the appropriate penalty
• Player slicing ball into driving range bay, going to retrieve their ball and the competition secretary disqualifying them for leaving the course during a round of golf

I think I might just be able to top all of those. A mate was playing in a comp at his place last summer when he bent down to pick up a broken tee to use on a par 3. He was told by a playing partner that he wasn’t allowed to use a found broken tee because it wasn’t equipment he had brought to the course with him.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think I might just be able to top all of those. A mate was playing in a comp at his place last summer when he bent down to pick up a broken tee to use on a par 3. He was told by a playing partner that he wasn’t allowed to use a found broken tee because it wasn’t equipment he had brought to the course with him.

As it with with most good ‘lies’…they often have a very strong vestige of truth about them?

 

[Orikoru]

It's fair to say I don't know every rule in the book. I know enough to get by 99% of the time. Some people on here think I don't play by the rules, just because I pop into this section from time to time and debate certain rules that I think are stupid. But that doesn't mean I don't play by those rules just like everybody else, and it amuses me when people don't know the difference, which is why I love a rules debate every now and then. I do dislike the idea that nothing should ever be questioned, I find it a very 'old boy golf' kind of mentality. That extends to all things golf, not just the rules.

The best thing though is that out of me and my usual golf playing mates, I know the rules far better than they do, and that is because of this very forum, where I've picked up lots of little bits of knowledge from various exchanges. If we're just playing a casual round, certain rules get bent for speed or enjoyment, but if my mate is putting a card in for example, it'll be me they run past any rule queries because they don't really have much of a clue on some things. I do have the rules app but it's extremely rare that I've ever used it, I don't really like the idea of standing about for five minutes trying to find a ruling. If in a competition with players other than my mates, the most common scenario would be for everyone in the group to come to a consensus. I would only argue with someone if I was absolutely convinced they were wrong.

 

[Billysboots]

As it with with most good ‘lies’…they often have a very strong vestige of truth about them?

Meaning?

 

[2blue]

It's fair to say I don't know every rule in the book. I know enough to get by 99% of the time. Some people on here think I don't play by the rules, just because I pop into this section from time to time and debate certain rules that I think are stupid. But that doesn't mean I don't play by those rules just like everybody else, and it amuses me when people don't know the difference, which is why I love a rules debate every now and then. I do dislike the idea that nothing should ever be questioned, I find it a very 'old boy golf' kind of mentality. That extends to all things golf, not just the rules.

The best thing though is that out of me and my usual golf playing mates, I know the rules far better than they do, and that is because of this very forum, where I've picked up lots of little bits of knowledge from various exchanges. If we're just playing a casual round, certain rules get bent for speed or enjoyment, but if my mate is putting a card in for example, it'll be me they run past any rule queries because they don't really have much of a clue on some things. I do have the rules app but it's extremely rare that I've ever used it, I don't really like the idea of standing about for five minutes trying to find a ruling. If in a competition with players other than my mates, the most common scenario would be for everyone in the group to come to a consensus. I would only argue with someone if I was absolutely convinced they were wrong.

..... and if you later find out that it was wrong is he then DQ'd or does everyone just keep quiet about it? ..... and would that be OK? I think this probs happens a lot.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

..... and if you later find out that it was wrong is he then DQ'd or does everyone just keep quiet about it? ..... and would that be OK? I think this probs happens a lot.

I suspect the moment is forgotten and not talked about again. Not in a sinister way, it just isn't interesting to most golfers. Unless it is a really contentious decision these things are usually forgotten as people move on to the golf itself.

I'm with @Orikoru on the whole. To know the correct ruling is ideal. If going by consensus then every discussion I've ever been involved in relates to is the decision fair, is the person gaining an unfair advantage. The decisions I've seen, if in doubt, always ere on the side of the field, not the individual. I do accept that will not always be the case but the minutiae of golf rules is overwhelming to most causal players.

 

[Orikoru]

..... and if you later find out that it was wrong is he then DQ'd or does everyone just keep quiet about it? ..... and would that be OK? I think this probs happens a lot.

How would you find out? Once you've agreed you just get on with your lives and it's forgotten about. If you coincidentally find out you were wrong from innocuous chatter it might be a month, three months later.. of course then you just say I'll know for next time it happens.

And yes, of course it happens all the time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Meaning?

Exactly that. If I am told that I am not allowed to use a tee I pick up during the round then by being provided with incorrect information I am, in effect, being lied to. But it feels that it just might be true - especially if the person telling me has some ‘status’ or ‘stature’ in the club and speaks with authority. And in this the new member and the newbie golfer are most susceptible. And so as it is in life. The best and most effective lies are those that might just be true. In golf what we must do to try and avoid this happening is to educate ourselves on the rules as best we can.

 

[chrisd]

How would you find out? Once you've agreed you just get on with your lives and it's forgotten about. If you coincidentally find out you were wrong from innocuous chatter it might be a month, three months later.. of course then you just say I'll know for next time it happens.

And yes, of course it happens all the time.

As I see it, if you stand about for a short while to debate an incident to "come to a consensus" it's very like that the conclusion will be wrong, either the decision will be, or the penalty (if one) applied may not be correct. So, surely, particularly in a medal round, then the player should really play a second ball and seek a definitive answer before signing their card. That way, if the player is placed in the competition they can hold their head up high knowing that they've acted correctly and not cheated their way to a place or a change in handicap

 

[Orikoru]

As I see it, if you stand about for a short while to debate an incident to "come to a consensus" it's very like that the conclusion will be wrong, either the decision will be, or the penalty (if one) applied may not be correct. So, surely, particularly in a medal round, then the player should really play a second ball and seek a definitive answer before signing their card. That way, if the player is placed in the competition they can hold their head up high knowing that they've acted correctly and not cheated their way to a place or a change in handicap

It's not at all "likely" to be wrong. Usually it just means the person who's ball it is isn't sure of the rule so they ask the rest of the group. And one of those people may have faced the same situation before so they state what they believe the ruling to be. Another chap agrees with him and there you go. I don't see how that makes it likely that they're wrong. I'd say it's more likely that they are correct with a small chance of being wrong. Obviously given that this happens in all golf clubs every week, there are times when people get it wrong, but I don't believe the percentage of wrongness is higher than the percentage that are correct.

It's not very common that nobody has any idea, but then I probably would resort to looking in the rules app. But I can't remember that happening so far.

I hear a lot of talk about people playing two balls when unsure of a ruling, but I've never seen it happen in real life.

 

[Swango1980]

I think I might just be able to top all of those. A mate was playing in a comp at his place last summer when he bent down to pick up a broken tee to use on a par 3. He was told by a playing partner that he wasn’t allowed to use a found broken tee because it wasn’t equipment he had brought to the course with him.

I wonder what he'd do if someone found a golf ball on the course, and dared to use it later in the round?

 

[Billysboots]

Exactly that. If I am told that I am not allowed to use a tee I pick up during the round then by being provided with incorrect information I am, in effect, being lied to. But it feels that it just might be true - especially if the person telling me has some ‘status’ or ‘stature’ in the club and speaks with authority. And in this the new member and the newbie golfer are most susceptible. And so as it is in life. The best and most effective lies are those that might just be true. In golf what we must do to try and avoid this happening is to educate ourselves on the rules as best we can.

With you now. Your original response read rather as though you thought my mate was telling me fibs - sorry!

 

[chrisd]

It's not at all "likely" to be wrong. Usually it just means the person who's ball it is isn't sure of the rule so they ask the rest of the group. And one of those people may have faced the same situation before so they state what they believe the ruling to be. Another chap agrees with him and there you go. I don't see how that makes it likely that they're wrong. I'd say it's more likely that they are correct with a small chance of being wrong. Obviously given that this happens in all golf clubs every week, there are times when people get it wrong, but I don't believe the percentage of wrongness is higher than the percentage that are correct.

It's not very common that nobody has any idea, but then I probably would resort to looking in the rules app. But I can't remember that happening so far.

I hear a lot of talk about people playing two balls when unsure of a ruling, but I've never seen it happen in real life.

Surprise surprise that you disagree, but if, in your post the player doesn't know whether he'd breached a rule, and a player who faced the same situation before had got the ruling wrong, and didn't check afterwards because the " consensus" agreed, and no one else in the group knew ( I assume not given that you use a consensus) then I feel it is just as likely that a wrong decision is agreed upon and not, as you say "more likely that they are correct with a small chance of being wrong" given the complexity of the rules.

There are so many people who dont have a scooby doo knowledge of the rules - if I had a £1 for every time I've been told to roll a plugged ball out of its hole I'd be able to pay my electric bill !

 

[Orikoru]

Surprise surprise that you disagree, but if, in your post the player doesn't know whether he'd breached a rule, and a player who faced the same situation before had got the ruling wrong, and didn't check afterwards because the " consensus" agreed, and no one else in the group knew ( I assume not given that you use a consensus) then I feel it is just as likely that a wrong decision is agreed upon and not, as you say "more likely that they are correct with a small chance of being wrong" given the complexity of the rules.

There are so many people who dont have a scooby doo knowledge of the rules - if I had a £1 for every time I've been told to roll a plugged ball out of its hole I'd be able to pay my electric bill !

Seem to be clutching at straws a bit there. Sounds like an unlikely set of events. Usually somebody knows enough to get the right outcome, or close enough that nothing is gained or lost.

That scenario is not really one I'd lose sleep over. If someone rolls it out of a plugged hole instead of taking a club length they're probably only harming their chances if anything. It's much of a muchness. I mean, say you're not sure whether the relief you get is one or two club-lengths - rather than waste time looking it up, I'd probably just stick to one club-length to be on the safe side, no harm done, and get on with it.