i would prob get as close as i can with the exception of two hole sat my home course, 8 and 9 i lay up to give me a full shot. a short chip is usually impossible to stop onto the green unless you can guarantee on lots of spin on a short shot.
What’s your favourite layup distance?
- Thread starter JohnnyDee
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Generally as close as I can unless there are reasons you cant, as got more chance of hitting the green.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
For me - whatever distance brings a putt into play as a sensible option 
. And I suspect that most medium and above handicap players who might claim any other distance know in their hearts that really that is what they should be aiming for.
. And I suspect that most medium and above handicap players who might claim any other distance know in their hearts that really that is what they should be aiming for.r0wly86
Head Pro
I was speaking to a Euro Tour players about this very topic, and he was quite adamant that you absolutely should not leave yourself less than 50 yards from the pin (unless you are so close that you are now chipping), he said this because on the speed of greens he plays on usually 12, one green at 15 on the stimp meter you need to be able to control the spin. Under 50 yards and you won't be able to impart consistent spin rates on the ball. So some will stick and check up, others will roll on, and on very fast greens that could roll on a long way and leave you with a very long putt. Above 50, his favourite distance is around 100 he knows that even on fast greens he can stop the ball within a few yards so knows where to land the ball.
It's not that you cannot get closer to the pin from a shorter shot, but more to do with consistency the pros prefer knowing pretty much absolutely what the ball will do, from 100 yards they can do this, from less than 50 they cannot, which is why they don't want to be pitching from that distance.
In GM 2 months ago I think, Dan Walker met you with Simon Dyson who now runs a clinic for good golfers to improve and one if the biggest things Dan took away was course management and how Dyson would always try to get to 100 yards.
From a practice point of view as well, it will be a lot easier to practice 2-3 shots, say 80, 100, 120 than every conceivable distance, yes you can adapt and hit a little softer etc, but if you just practice 100 yard pitches and 80 yard pitches exclusively, I imagine you would improve quicker than trying to hit 20,30,40,50,60,70,80 etc pitches.
The other example I have which relates to spin is when the pin is on the very front of the green, from 40 yards I will not be able to stop the ball near the pin if I land it on, my only choices really are to land it on the front and leave myself with a 20 foot putt, or land it on the fairway or fringe and try and run it up to the pin, with the potential downsides of it sticking in the fringe and leaving myself with another chip or difficult putt.
If I had a longer distance I know the ball will move a few feet so makes the shot a lot easier to imagine
on the stimp meter you need to be able to control the spin. Under 50 yards and you won't be able to impart consistent spin rates on the ball. So some will stick and check up, others will roll on, and on very fast greens that could roll on a long way and leave you with a very long putt. Above 50, his favourite distance is around 100 he knows that even on fast greens he can stop the ball within a few yards so knows where to land the ball.It's not that you cannot get closer to the pin from a shorter shot, but more to do with consistency the pros prefer knowing pretty much absolutely what the ball will do, from 100 yards they can do this, from less than 50 they cannot, which is why they don't want to be pitching from that distance.
In GM 2 months ago I think, Dan Walker met you with Simon Dyson who now runs a clinic for good golfers to improve and one if the biggest things Dan took away was course management and how Dyson would always try to get to 100 yards.
From a practice point of view as well, it will be a lot easier to practice 2-3 shots, say 80, 100, 120 than every conceivable distance, yes you can adapt and hit a little softer etc, but if you just practice 100 yard pitches and 80 yard pitches exclusively, I imagine you would improve quicker than trying to hit 20,30,40,50,60,70,80 etc pitches.
The other example I have which relates to spin is when the pin is on the very front of the green, from 40 yards I will not be able to stop the ball near the pin if I land it on, my only choices really are to land it on the front and leave myself with a 20 foot putt, or land it on the fairway or fringe and try and run it up to the pin, with the potential downsides of it sticking in the fringe and leaving myself with another chip or difficult putt.
If I had a longer distance I know the ball will move a few feet so makes the shot a lot easier to imagine
D
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Interesting to note that one of the early holes last night Woodland laid up further back than Rose and was able to spin the ball back close for birdie. Rose was 60 odd yards out and couldn't generate enough spin to get it close.
IanM
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The 18th at my home course is a shortish par 5. Too often I go for the "how close can I get" shot with the second after a drive off the fairway. I've made better scores getting myself to 100 yards or so and hitting the 3rd close... lesson learned!
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
The 18th at my home course is a shortish par 5. Too often I go for the "how close can I get" shot with the second after a drive off the fairway. I've made better scores getting myself to 100 yards or so and hitting the 3rd close... lesson learned!
We have a closing par 5 with water short and right of the green. Ideally you want to be left hand side so you don't need to flirt with it all and many times especially in the summer when it runs I've hit a good drive and good second and found myself 40-60 yards away having to pitch over. As it can be a fiddly shot off unpredictable lies (it was a fairway that suffered badly in the drought last year) and plays into the wind, it can be problematic and I have been guilty of fatting it into the water on numerous occasions. I have found I am better off at either 85 yards (full 53 degree wedge into the wind) or 100 yards (same shot with PW) and perhaps statistically better hitting 9 iron from slightly further out knowing I've more than enough club and therefore putting a smooth and easy swing on it.
Fortunately our greens are rarely above 10 on the stimp except for club championships, Jamega tour and one or two other big competitions and fairly receptive so you can play a short pitch in and it'll stop. I think for me the "fear" factor of the water is the biggest factor as I would happily play a pitch of similar distances (half swing types) on any other hole to a reasonable (for my handicap) standard
UlyssesSky
Head Pro
I was speaking to a Euro Tour players about this very topic, and he was quite adamant that you absolutely should not leave yourself less than 50 yards from the pin (unless you are so close that you are now chipping), he said this because on the speed of greens he plays on usually 12, one green at 15
The greens us mere mortals get to play on are neither as fast nor as hard as the greens the tour pros have to deal with every week. Tour pros may have to take that in consideration, for everyone else the overall inconsistency in the swing should absolutely override any inconsistencies in the spin rates.
As to the initial question: I try to avoid having between 50 and 90 yards in. Between those two distances I find myself in a weird transition area between my normal swing (90 yards is about a 1/2 GW for me) and my pitching swing (i.e. weight more on left foot at adress and limited weight shift during the swing). As soon as I find time to work on my wedge distances, this will hopefully become a thing of the past....
robinthehood
Hacker
All wonderful anecdotal evidence
..but
Go on the pga website, look at the stats.
The average distance to the hole for approaches from 100 to 125 yards.
They are twice as far away as those from 50 to 75.
Who'd have thought that eh....
..but
Go on the pga website, look at the stats.
The average distance to the hole for approaches from 100 to 125 yards.
They are twice as far away as those from 50 to 75.
Who'd have thought that eh....
r0wly86
Head Pro
The same thing applies to us and our greens, though of course the run out won't be as severe.
My example still stand though, if you don't have a lot of green to work with before the ball, it is easier to stop a proper pitch shot than half swing 40 yarder. Even as an 8 handicapper I will take that into account.
If you're a high handicapper and really don't have consistency or much control then I would get as close as possible, If you have a decent pitching game, with reasonably consistent strikes and distances, then I would definitely advise someone to work on a few distances to get spot on, i.e. can reliably hit that distance and know how much run out you will normally get
robinthehood
Hacker
GIR from 100 yds. 70%
GIR 75 to 100 yds. 90%
GIR 75 to 100 yds. 90%
robinthehood
Hacker
Except the PGA tours wealth of stats don't bare any of this out.
r0wly86
Head Pro
My anecdotal evidence was never to go less than 50, your stats are 50-75, which is actually my favoured distance as I can still spin the ball a lot with my 60.
But also quantitative evidence isn't as cut and dry as you think, you need extra evidence usually qualitative. i.e. under what circumstances are they playing those shots, how many shots are they taking relative to once another. I would imagine there are far more shots from 100 yards than 50 yards, so more chances of a very errant shot that skews the averages. Without knowing who is hitting the shots under what circumstances those stats are not as important as you think
If it were so cut and dry why does every tour pro say they want to get the ball around 100 yards because it's their favourite distance
robinthehood
Hacker
Scrambling from 20 to 30 yds 70
Scrambling from 20 to 30 65%
Scrambling from 10 to 20 76%
Scrambling from > 30 yds 45%
Scrambling from 20 to 30 65%
Scrambling from 10 to 20 76%
r0wly86
Head Pro
again you need qualitative explanations for the statistics, what terrain were the coming out from 10-20 yards much more likely to be a bunker, of fringe. Also that is getting towards chipping territory which is a different issue that I made in my OP. In thiose situations the pros may know the pin is on the back and have a lot of green to work with so know they can get closer with no issues.
be honest with yourself, do you honestly believe that tour pros, who are the best in the world at what they do, the numerous coaches, mental coaches and other employees they use to improve their have all missed this point. But you a layman for the pro game knows for certain the best method for pitching?
If it were so simple as you say it is then every tour pro would be saying they get as close as possible as it is the best way. But no literally every tour pro says the have a preferred distance that they go to. I have seen pros hit the ball in the water then drop the ball 80-100 yards back and not 30 where they could also drop, why is this, if it is simply a truth that it is easier the closer you are
robinthehood
Hacker
They will all be just around the green , there are separate stats for sand saves.
I've no doubt if a player has to lay up he has a preferred distance.
It's the notion that some have that's it's a better option than getting it is as close as possible that is not true .
r0wly86
Head Pro
Again, then why do the tour pros when laying up will go to their favourite distance c.100 yards rather than smashing it up as close as possible?
You can keep pointing to the stats (but again you need more information before you can extrapolate the data. But until the best players in the world, who's sole job is play golf, start doing it then there must be a reason why
Smasher
Medal Winner
If i can't get within 30 yards then i'd prefer 90 or 100 for a 60 or 54 degree full swing.
robinthehood
Hacker
Extrapolate what?
Fairway shots from 50 to 75 are always nearer than 75 to 100.
Less than 50 and your in to scrambling territory and the stats says exactly the same thing. In the vast amount of cases Nearer is better.
You can bleat all you like about preferred distance but it's just anecdotal nonsense.
Your confusing having to lay up with general play.
Smasher
Medal Winner
Depends how close is close. I'd be better with a full (easy) swing from 90 or 100 yards than by feel from 60 or 70. If as close as possible is 10 yards then you'd be right.
