Voting tomorrow, is there any point?

[Deleted member 15344]

You can argue that stopping people from running buck naked down the middle of the m25 is restricting their choice.

I am yet to hear a good argument on why people shouldn't have to attend their polling station.

If you want to be extreme, then if you don't attend, why should you get any help from the government. It effects every single facet of your life, and you're trying to give people an easy get out clause to not be involved. I believe that the vast majority of non-voters do so apathetically, not from some deep held belief against the system.

Do you have an opinion on if we should be in/out of Europe? If so, then vote either way.
Do you have an opinion on whether austerity or increased spending will stimulate the economy? If so, then vote either way.

Two pretty big questions.

If you don't have an opinion, then educate yourself.

(The "you" is the hypothetical you, i'm not directing/assuming/judging any individual in particular)

The argument why people shouldn't "have" to is quite simple - because we live in a free country where people have a choice - there is nothing stronger than that. Start "forcing" people and all of sudden it's not a choice anymore.

We all have a choice in life - yours is to attend - others make a different choice , no one should be judged regardless of what their reasons are. It's not a "get out clause" it's a choice. That's democracy for you and it's a right we all have - you exercise your right and so do they people that don't turn up to vote or don't vote by post etc. Some might not care - that's their right , some can't be bothered to involved - again that's their right - doesn't matter what their reason is - it's their right to decide

What would be the next step - force people to chose one - then force them to decide which choice.

 

[AmandaJR]

Regardless of the options available and how strongly, or not, I feel about any of them I can never forget the struggle by many to allow everyone the right (and undeniable privilege) to vote. So I will attend the polling station and be thankful of my right to do so...

 

[Region3]

You can argue that stopping people from running buck naked down the middle of the m25 is restricting their choice.

I am yet to hear a good argument on why people shouldn't have to attend their polling station.

If you want to be extreme, then if you don't attend, why should you get any help from the government. It effects every single facet of your life, and you're trying to give people an easy get out clause to not be involved. I believe that the vast majority of non-voters do so apathetically, not from some deep held belief against the system.

Do you have an opinion on if we should be in/out of Europe? If so, then vote either way.
Do you have an opinion on whether austerity or increased spending will stimulate the economy? If so, then vote either way.

Two pretty big questions.

If you don't have an opinion, then educate yourself.

(The "you" is the hypothetical you, i'm not directing/assuming/judging any individual in particular)

Is this not the same as forcing people who drive to learn how to fix an engine, or - heaven forbid - forcing people who play golf to learn the rules?

I have zero interest in politics and even less inclination to learn what it's all about just so that I can make an informed choice.

 

[bladeplayer]

Regardless of the options available and how strongly, or not, I feel about any of them I can never forget the struggle by many to allow everyone the right (and undeniable privilege) to vote. So I will attend the polling station and be thankful of my right to do so...

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[upsidedown]

Will I vote, heck yes :thup:

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

The argument why people shouldn't "have" to is quite simple - because we live in a free country where people have a choice - there is nothing stronger than that. Start "forcing" people and all of sudden it's not a choice anymore.

We all have a choice in life - yours is to attend - others make a different choice , no one should be judged regardless of what their reasons are. It's not a "get out clause" it's a choice. That's democracy for you and it's a right we all have - you exercise your right and so do they people that don't turn up to vote or don't vote by post etc. Some might not care - that's their right , some can't be bothered to involved - again that's their right - doesn't matter what their reason is - it's their right to decide

What would be the next step - force people to chose one - then force them to decide which choice.

Strawman argument alert. A number of countries have made it compulsory to vote, do they seem to be forcing people to vote for a particular party?

I'm not saying you have to vote, but you should have to attend. If you want to be a part of a country, it's your civic duty. If you want to benefit from it, you should be voting.

Otherwise you can have absolutely zero complaints about: The economy, taxes, European membership, the NHS, education, pretty much everything.

You can't have it both ways that you don't want to engage, but still complain.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Strawman argument alert. A number of countries have made it compulsory to vote, do they seem to be forcing people to vote for a particular party?

I'm not saying you have to vote, but you should have to attend. If you want to be a part of a country, it's your civic duty. If you want to benefit from it, you should be voting.

Sorry but i firmly believe that's nonsense - I know plenty in the military who haven't voted or attend - yet you suggest they aren't part of this country if they don't attend a polling station ?! And many people will play a part in making the country work without getting into the politics of it - are you suggesting they don't deserve to benefit from that work ?!

Otherwise you can have absolutely zero complaints about: The economy, taxes, European membership, the NHS, education, pretty much everything.

You can't have it both ways that you don't want to engage, but still complain.

Who has asked for it both ways ?

Maybe they are happy with their lot and don't want to get involved or complain about NHS etc etc etc - once again that's their choice and they are happy with it.

There is a lot of people I believe who contribute to the running of the country - to suggest they aren't part of it or not fullfilljng some civic duty because they don't tick a box is actually insulting

 

[bluewolf]

I don't care if you vote or not, but I reserve the right to completely ignore any complaint you raise regarding the state of the country if you refuse to take part in the democratic process..
Mods, can we have a "You have no right to take part in this debate" smiley?

Just read your post above Phil.. Sweet baby Jeebus, you couldn't have missed the point any more spectacularly if you'd just got in David Blunkett's taxi.....

 

[bobmac]

Just imagine your golf club needs a new captain. Two people have put their names forward. You have played with both of them and you have seen both of them cheat in comps but couldn't prove it.
Would you vote for either of them?

 

[bluewolf]

Just imagine your golf club needs a new captain. Two people have put their names forward. You have played with both of them and you have seen both of them cheat in comps but couldn't prove it.
Would you vote for either of them?

I know that the running of the Country is important, but it's obviously nowhere near as important as the ceremonial figurehead of a local golf club.. I mean, who would pick the bunker for the Captains charity???

 

[bobmac]

I know that the running of the Country is important, but it's obviously nowhere near as important as the ceremonial figurehead of a local golf club.. I mean, who would pick the bunker for the Captains charity???

Would you vote for either of them?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just imagine your golf club needs a new captain. Two people have put their names forward. You have played with both of them and you have seen both of them cheat in comps but couldn't prove it.
Would you vote for either of them?

Wouldn't vote for either

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I don't care if you vote or not, but I reserve the right to completely ignore any complaint you raise regarding the state of the country if you refuse to take part in the democratic process..
Mods, can we have a "You have no right to take part in this debate" smiley?

Just read your post above Phil.. Sweet baby Jeebus, you couldn't have missed the point any more spectacularly if you'd just got in David Blunkett's taxi.....

Thank god someone understands. Love the idea of that smiley by the way, would completely work on so many things.

Sorry but i firmly believe that's nonsense - I know plenty in the military who haven't voted or attend - yet you suggest they aren't part of this country if they don't attend a polling station ?! And many people will play a part in making the country work without getting into the politics of it - are you suggesting they don't deserve to benefit from that work ?!

You seem to have glanced over your previous argument, almost like you realised it was nonsense.

I never said they aren't a part of this country, but I do feel, even if you're in the military, that it is your duty to vote. If you're a part of the country you need to have a say in it, even if your say is that you spoil your ballot.

Who has asked for it both ways ?

Maybe they are happy with their lot and don't want to get involved or complain about NHS etc etc etc - once again that's their choice and they are happy with it.

There is a lot of people I believe who contribute to the running of the country - to suggest they aren't part of it or not fullfilljng some civic duty because they don't tick a box is actually insulting

Many many people will happily moan, but not vote. If you even suggest that isn't the case then I know you're just trolling.

You find that insulting? You, good sir, are looking for offence in that case.

Clearly we disagree on what someones civic duty is, but I struggle to believe you will convert me to believe that it is something people should just be able to forget about, when it plays such a massive part in every single persons life.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Would you vote for either of them?

Put someone else forward then. If you don't care enough to do that, then you can't moan if someone is elected captain who you have seen cheat.

Again though, it's not linked to the GE, as the captain of your golf club won't impact nearly every single aspect of your life.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

of course theres a point, whether you like them or not the 2 main options will clearly run the country differently, and I would expect most people to have a preference of these options, despite not liking the individuals. im not a fan of either but one is a far better option, both for me and the country imho so i will definitely be voting

Is that not the problem this election.

Outwith Scotland [known as OS in future] the voters do not like any of the options available to them, namely, Red Tories, Blue Tories, Traitors and Dafties.
The OS voters on here who say they will not vote or will vote for an obscure independent seem to back this up. As does a predicted low turnout.

Within Scotland there is one very popular party and an expected turnout of over 80%.
and .....as Hogan says the OS voters on here have the cheek to talk about legitimacy

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thank god someone understands. Love the idea of that smiley by the way, would completely work on so many things.



You seem to have glanced over your previous argument, almost like you realised it was nonsense.

I never said they aren't a part of this country, but I do feel, even if you're in the military, that it is your duty to vote. If you're a part of the country you need to have a say in it, even if your say is that you spoil your ballot.



Many many people will happily moan, but not vote. If you even suggest that isn't the case then I know you're just trolling.

You find that insulting? You, good sir, are looking for offence in that case.

Clearly we disagree on what someones civic duty is, but I struggle to believe you will convert me to believe that it is something people should just be able to forget about, when it plays such a massive part in every single persons life.

And there will never IMO be a time in this country in my lifetime where people are forced to make a choice and then they deal with their own consequences of their choice - personal responsibility

Thankfully I believe we have got it right in this country and people can freely decide to make their own choice without being forced.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Is that not the problem this election.

Outwith Scotland [known as OS in future] the voters do not like any of the options available to them, namely, Red Tories, Blue Tories, Traitors and Dafties.
The OS voters on here who say they will not vote or will vote for an obscure independent seem to back this up. As does a predicted low turnout.

Within Scotland there is one very popular party and an expected turnout of over 80%.
and .....as Hogan says the OS voters on here have the cheek to talk about legitimacy

You know what is driving most of this Scotland vs rUK/OS/OT/EWNI debate? Both sides constantly talking about it, and stopped drawing wild conclusions. Maybe if both sides (yourself included) stopped talking about it like it was Scotland vs rUK/OS/OT/EWNI then it might all work a bit better.

Oh, and disparaging remarks like "Red Tories, Blue Tories, Traitors and Dafties" don't exactly help debate.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Is that not the problem this election.

Outwith Scotland [known as OS in future] the voters do not like any of the options available to them, namely, Red Tories, Blue Tories, Traitors and Dafties.
The OS voters on here who say they will not vote or will vote for an obscure independent seem to back this up. As does a predicted low turnout.

Within Scotland there is one very popular party and an expected turnout of over 80%.
and .....as Hogan says the OS voters on here have the cheek to talk about legitimacy

Can someone translate what this is supposed to mean ?!

Seems another Scotland and the rest post that is very common these days

 

[bobmac]

Put someone else forward then. If you don't care enough to do that, then you can't moan if someone is elected captain who you have seen cheat.

Again though, it's not linked to the GE, as the captain of your golf club won't impact nearly every single aspect of your life.

Starting to feel like Jeremy Paxman here

Would you vote for either of them?

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Starting to feel like Jeremy Paxman here

Would you vote for either of them?

That completely depends (its hard to answer a completely hypothetical situation!). If I had seen them both cheat, that wouldn't necessarily mean I wouldn't vote for them. If one of them had plans for the golf club/course that I agreed with, and that would improve it for the whole membership, then yes I would still vote for them.

Would you vote for either of them? And if not, would you accept that if you didn't vote for either, and didn't take any step to present a third party, you have no complaint about anything the elected captain does?