UK Handicapping system

JezzE said:
Why should he get 5 extra shots. Don't understand the logic for that comment.

And the problem with clubs all doing their own thing is that you lose the parity when players go to different courses to compete - surely an essential element of any all-encompassing handicap system?
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Simple, at a club with a SSS of 68, his 10 handicap is based on that. Conversly, at a course with a SSS of 73, a 10 handicapper is based on that, so it follows that if the guy off 10 from the course with a SSS of 68 plays at or against a member of the course with a SSS of 73, then he is basically 5 shots worse off! - That is why the American system works!
As for the second statement, well that basically follows what is said above, there can be no such thing as parity on the UK system as a persons handicap is ONLY relavent on his own course or those of a similar SSS
 
LCVreg said:
Simple, at a club with a SSS of 68, his 10 handicap is based on that. Conversly, at a course with a SSS of 73, a 10 handicapper is based on that, so it follows that if the guy off 10 from the course with a SSS of 68 plays at or against a member of the course with a SSS of 73, then he is basically 5 shots worse off! - That is why the American system works!
As for the second statement, well that basically follows what is said above, there can be no such thing as parity on the UK system as a persons handicap is ONLY relavent on his own course or those of a similar SSS
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The better end of a 10-handicapper's playing ability would be roughly 78 at course A and 83 at course B - still a 10-handicapper though...
 
RichardC said:
They will effectively be playing off levels. I don't see what the issue is:confused:
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One of them is probably used to lashing driver on every tee, and wedging in from where ever. The other probably has to negotiate a longer, narrower course, and hit mid irons in. a bit of thinking golf. One handicap will travel better than the other.
 
murphthemog said:
One of them is probably used to lashing driver on every tee, and wedging in from where ever. The other probably has to negotiate a longer, narrower course, and hit mid irons in. a bit of thinking golf. One handicap will travel better than the other.
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Fair point I suppose.
 
LCVreg said:
Exactly, they would be playing off levals, even though one course is by definition 5 strokes more difficult than the other!
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I think the 5 strokes difference is taken care of by the difference between the two SSSs? You don't get 5 extra shots twice which is what would happen with what you're advocating.
 
murphthemog said:
One of them is probably used to lashing driver on every tee, and wedging in from where ever. The other probably has to negotiate a longer, narrower course, and hit mid irons in. a bit of thinking golf. One handicap will travel better than the other.
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But it might be that the SSS 68 course is as tight as hell, while the SSS 73 is a wide-open field where you can spray it about like an unmanned hose? Who would be the better player then based on LCV's argument - the 10-handicapper at the SSS 68 or the SSS 73 course?
 
JezzE said:
But it might be that the SSS 68 course is as tight as hell, while the SSS 73 is a wide-open field where you can spray it about like an unmanned hose? Who would be the better player then based on LCV's argument - the 10-handicapper at the SSS 68 or the SSS 73 course?
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Kind of what I was thinking, but could not put it into words :p:D
 
murphthemog said:
One handicap will travel better than the other.
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Home advantage is a big, big factor.

A pair at our club (par 72, SSS 71) was drawn at home in a national comp against a pair from another club (par 72, SSS 74). Knowing how much a green fee would cost our pair to play at their club (a lot of money), they very kindly offered to switch the venue to their course - nice try but offer declined. They were soundly beaten although they were two very good golfers. I am absolutely certain that our pair would have been beaten at their venue.
So it's not a simple equation.
 
JezzE said:
I think the 5 strokes difference is taken care of by the difference between the two SSSs? You don't get 5 extra shots twice which is what would happen with what you're advocating.
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Youve lost me! - I'll try and explain again, Guy at course A plays off 10 on course with 68 SSS - he then enters an open at course B with a SSS of 73 - the 10 handicappers at course B are playing at a course where they have a handicap of 10 on a SSS of 73 - to gain parity, Guy A would have to play off 15 at this 2nd course, or is there something that I am missing!
 
LCVreg said:
Youve lost me! - I'll try and explain again, Guy at course A plays off 10 on course with 68 SSS - he then enters an open at course B with a SSS of 73 - the 10 handicappers at course B are playing at a course where they have a handicap of 10 on a SSS of 73 - to gain parity, Guy A would have to play off 15 at this 2nd course, or is there something that I am missing!
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Yes - the point
 
LCVreg said:
OK, so I presume that you think a 10 handicapper at a 5400 yard wide open parkland course is the same standard as a 10 handicapper at say, Burnham & Berrow or the like - hmm,
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Don't see why not - you need to factor in the relationship between par and SSS at the two tracks obviously as well
 
JezzE said:
Don't see why not - you need to factor in the relationship between par and SSS at the two tracks obviously as well
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... though I will concede there may come a point where parity is difficult to achieve - for example, I used to work at a nine-holer that was about 4,500 yards for 18 holes. Par was 66, SSS 60 and the difference between that golfing experience and what you might get at a 'normal' 18-holer was quite a wide gulf to bridge especially for the mid and higher-handicappers. But for any course in the 5,500 to 6,500 yard bracket, my experience of playing for a number of years leads me to believe that considerably more parity exists than many might imagine.
 
LCVreg said:
OK, so I presume that you think a 10 handicapper at a 5400 yard wide open parkland course is the same standard as a 10 handicapper at say, Burnham & Berrow or the like - hmm,
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But maybe that short wide open course is a SSS 68 so that handicap has been taken from that meaning he has to shoot 78 to play to handicap. The long tight course is maybe SSS 73 so he would have to shoot 83 to play to handicap there.
So if he goes and shoots his 78 round the tighter SSS 73 course he would actually play to a 5 handicap. But the chances of that happening is not realistic as he will more than likely shoot 83 which is his handicap.

I have played on these short wide opened fairway courses and likewise played on long tight courses. SO the short one is par 70 and I have shot 75 and I have gone on the longer one that is par 72 and shot 80, so I was 5 over on the easy course and 8 over on the harder course. But forget the par. I shot 7 over against SSS 68 on the shorter one and 7 over on the harder against the SSS 73. If I am not gettingthe point here will someone please tell me otherwise I have been playing for over 20 years not understanding SSS.....:confused:
 
MadAdey said:
But maybe that short wide open course is a SSS 68 so that handicap has been taken from that meaning he has to shoot 78 to play to handicap. The long tight course is maybe SSS 73 so he would have to shoot 83 to play to handicap there.
So if he goes and shoots his 78 round the tighter SSS 73 course he would actually play to a 5 handicap. But the chances of that happening is not realistic as he will more than likely shoot 83 which is his handicap.

I have played on these short wide opened fairway courses and likewise played on long tight courses. SO the short one is par 70 and I have shot 75 and I have gone on the longer one that is par 72 and shot 80, so I was 5 over on the easy course and 8 over on the harder course. But forget the par. I shot 7 over against SSS 68 on the shorter one and 7 over on the harder against the SSS 73. If I am not gettingthe point here will someone please tell me otherwise I have been playing for over 20 years not understanding SSS.....:confused:
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I think you are understanding it perfectly...
 
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