UK Handicapping system

[rosecott]

No i think you are wrong there - SSS is fundamentally about distance, and certainly not par. There is a TINY adjustment that is made for difficulty, but it is substantially about distance.

Our course is a short but tough course. The SSS is 3 under for Whites, and 5 under for Yellows. Typically CSS is 1 under the SSS and once in a while 2 under . I have only known it 1 over SSS in 10 years.

It is VERY difficult to get cut, but my handicap travels very well to much longer and much tougher courses.

Sev112 is quite correct that course length is by far the major determinant of SSS. The 2009 guide to setting SSS did, however, introduce new factors to be taken into account such as:
Changes in elevation in the terrain.
difficulty factor in recovery if the green is missed.

By the way, it is not possible for the CSS to be 2 lower than SSS.

 

[BTatHome]

their handicaps also are much better than a comparable player over here, eg a 10 over here is probably a 5 or 6 over there

they count all rounds even when gimmee's are being given

as they are based on the last 10 rounds (i think its 10) your handicap can be 'adjusted' very quickly, making bandits even more difficult to control

 

[USER1999]

I for one, do not want a system where every round counts. I like the freedom of 4bbb to thrash it about and have a laugh. Saturday swindle, best part of the week.

 

[Ethan]

their handicaps also are much better than a comparable player over here, eg a 10 over here is probably a 5 or 6 over there

they count all rounds even when gimmee's are being given

as they are based on the last 10 rounds (i think its 10) your handicap can be 'adjusted' very quickly, making bandits even more difficult to control

The US system is based on a moving average - something like 95% of the best 10 of the last 20 scores, so in statistical terms based on something around the 75th percentile score. Handicaps can change very quickly, and I have played with guys in the US who gave themselves mulligans, moved the ball onto a good lie on every fairway, gave themselves putts, then after the round said that score would increases/reduce their 'index', as they refer to handicaps.

I have also played with guys who claimed to be a 2 or 3 handicap, but who would struggle to be a 6 over here.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I for one, do not want a system where every round counts. I like the freedom of 4bbb to thrash it about and have a laugh. Saturday swindle, best part of the week.

I agree. Its hard enough playing the monthly medal and stableford and trying to beat your handicap without having to worry about it every other weekend too. Golf is about enjoyment. Having a friendly matchplay with your mates is great especially when you take the cash but worrying about holing everything to make sure it counts towards a handicap score will a) take the enjoyment out of the game - part of matchplay is knowing when to concede a putt and b) slow the course down to a crawl if everyone is holing everything out.

CONGU isn't perfect but it works to a great degree and I have to be honest and say I've never had an issue. I play a lot of society events and to be honest some of the handicaps declared are just so wrong it isn't funny. You club handicap is the only true handicap and if it doesn't say you are 9.8 then you aren't regardless of what you think you shoot in a society

 

[rosecott]

their handicaps also are much better than a comparable player over here, eg a 10 over here is probably a 5 or 6 over there

Thoroughly agree. If you've ever come across an American over here to play golf or come across one on a golfing holiday in Spain, Portugal or Turkey, you can bet your (or his) bottom dollar that he won't be playing to handicap.
Perhaps we should start a society to invite Americans to come over and play for a few shillings - could help our economy.

 

[LCVreg]

Presumably your 9.8 takes into account all the 0.1 you would have gone up when you didn’t shoot under your handicap?

Yep, all counted!!

 

[MadAdey]

I agree with the comments already made. Why is your club handicap not lower than it is if you are capable of playing to a better level? Surely you must be bale to get out in some competitions to get it reduced?

 

[DCB]

Oh how I love these threads, they come along every so often, usually with some Mr Disgruntled saying how awful the current handicap system is and how their handicap should be a lot lower.

It's quite simple really.... get out and play in your Qualifying Competitions or go through the proper process and put in some Supplementary cards.

One thing for sure, from my memory, the current system is a lot easier for the golfer to use than the old system that was in place when I started playing club golf 30 or so years ago. It may not be perfect, it has it's flaws, but on the whole, if you play regularly in comps, it works quite well.

 

[wull]

No i think you are wrong there - SSS is fundamentally about distance, and certainly not par. There is a TINY adjustment that is made for difficulty, but it is substantially about distance.

Our course is a short but tough course. The SSS is 3 under for Whites, and 5 under for Yellows. Typically CSS is 1 under the SSS and once in a while 2 under . I have only known it 1 over SSS in 10 years.

It is VERY difficult to get cut, but my handicap travels very well to much longer and much tougher courses.

i'm not talking about css or ss here.i'm talking about whether a player would shoot similar scores on a longer course or not.just because it's longer doesn't necessarily mean a player will struggle more.read the post!!!

i agree with you that most courses that are longer have a ss that is either level the par of the course or 1 over.but that to me doesn't reflect on the difficulty of the course itself.like i've said before my home course's have a ss of 1 under the par because they are shortr but they play very difficult and this to me makes no sense.

where as you have a course like crieff which is longer and has a ss of 1 over but plays much easier,wide open fairways.and for me it's easier to score there,so i'm not 8 shots worse there...in fact i'm 2 or 3 shots better.

 

[LCVreg]

For the original poster, you say that you would have been cut from your society rounds. Fine. But, I bet you base this on your score, relative to par. This is a nonsense, as you would have to base it relative to standard scratch. Par means nothing. I bet under the proper congu system, your society handicap would work out near as makes no odds to your current congu one.

Well, the society that I have played in and which the scores are relavent to are scored EXACTLY to the Congu system as per the convaluted book on the system. A CSS has been calculated for each and every event and all handicvap changes are calculated exactly as such, and the average entry per meeting is over 30. All events have been played to at least yellow yardages and on a couple of occasions, on white tees, so basically, all is exactly as would have been had it been at my own club1! - I do know the system very well I'm afraid!!

 

[rosecott]

I do know the system very well I'm afraid!!

Well then, you should know how to get your handicap down to what you imagine it should be.

 

[LCVreg]

Well then, you should know how to get your handicap down to what you imagine it should be.

Oh yes,as an ex Captain, and Golf Club Secretary in my time, I certainly know how to do it, but it seems that you are unable to see the facts - I have played numerous society games this year, and have scored a number of times under 75 gross, on measured courses with SSS from 69 to 71. The fact is that I have been unable to play at my home club in enough competitions to have any affect on my handicap, and the powers that be do not allow any sort of "social" golf scores to be put into my home club system, then my handicap is a lot higher than it should be - fact!. I run a number of business's and am just unable to play at the times when monthly medals and the like are on.
Congu have got to relax their entering of cards or else there could be many like me who do not have a true handicap. And to have a 1st and 2nd degree of "handicap" as in active and non-active is quite simply ludicrous. At the end of the day, and I will quote a correspondent in the GCMA magazine earlier in the year, the strict Congu rulings are one of the reasons that golf clubs are losing members throughout the land..that is not my comment, but from one GC manager.
The days are long gone when a club only allows those with an "official" handicap to play their course (of course there are and always will be a few upmarket opn

 

[MadAdey]

Oh yes,as an ex Captain, and Golf Club Secretary in my time, I certainly know how to do it, but it seems that you are unable to see the facts - I have played numerous society games this year, and have scored a number of times under 75 gross, on measured courses with SSS from 69 to 71. The fact is that I have been unable to play at my home club in enough competitions to have any affect on my handicap, and the powers that be do not allow any sort of "social" golf scores to be put into my home club system, then my handicap is a lot higher than it should be - fact!. I run a number of business's and am just unable to play at the times when monthly medals and the like are on.
Congu have got to relax their entering of cards or else there could be many like me who do not have a true handicap. And to have a 1st and 2nd degree of "handicap" as in active and non-active is quite simply ludicrous. At the end of the day, and I will quote a correspondent in the GCMA magazine earlier in the year, the strict Congu rulings are one of the reasons that golf clubs are losing members throughout the land..that is not my comment, but from one GC manager.
The days are long gone when a club only allows those with an "official" handicap to play their course (of course there are and always will be a few upmarket opn

I do not understand if you run a number of businesses then why can't you play in medals? You appear to get plenty of time to play in your society matches. You said that a lot of your society games are from the yellow tees with the odd one from the whites. At my club some of the white tees make a huge amount of difference to the course. SSS yellow tees = 71 SSS white tees =72. I will have a chat with the EGU Handicaps and SSS Manger next time I see him at the club and see what he says on this matter and report back on here with what he says.

 

[BTatHome]

Do you win when you play the medals? Seems a strange situation that you do well when playing in society games but not when playing a medal at your home course. a 2 shot increase for me would be awesome to win a a few medals

 

[rosecott]

but it seems that you are unable to see the facts

The facts are pretty obvious. You want the system to be geared entirely to your personal situation. As other respondents have pointed out, you seem to be able to make plenty of time available for society golf - nothing at all wrong with that, it's your personal choice. If your personal circumstances make it difficult for you to play when organised qualifiers are held at your home club, the system of Supplementary Scores was introduced specifically to meet your needs. If you prefer to play your society golf rather than arrange for a Supplementary round then that is your choice. You cannot expect, however, that the system should be changed specifically for the way you wish to organise your golfing activities.

 

[LCVreg]

The facts are pretty obvious. You want the system to be geared entirely to your personal situation. As other respondents have pointed out, you seem to be able to make plenty of time available for society golf - nothing at all wrong with that, it's your personal choice. If your personal circumstances make it difficult for you to play when organised qualifiers are held at your home club, the system of Supplementary Scores was introduced specifically to meet your needs. If you prefer to play your society golf rather than arrange for a Supplementary round then that is your choice. You cannot expect, however, that the system should be changed specifically for the way you wish to organise your golfing activities.

Well it appears that the only respondents are avid club members who are sold on the EGU and the Congu system.....I will ask you both, why if it so good, is the Congu system only used in the UK and not anywhere else in the developed world? - and when was the last time you sat down and read through 96 pages of goblegook as printed in the Congu unified handicapping system 2008 - 2011

 

[bobmac]

Here's my view on this.

In the old days, players could get cut on social play.
Match play was 3/4s h/cap.
And it worked very well for many years.

Then someone changed the rules.

Now, you cant get cut on social/society play unless you fulfill the list of rules laid down by the club officers in line with Congu's directives.
Therefor people like the OP ends up with a h/cap that is too high and DOESN'T REFLECT HIS/HER CURRENT PLAYING ABILITY.
Therefor the playing field is no longer level.

So now his h/cap is too high and when and if he plays in a knock-out, he aslo gets full handicp difference.

The only person who knows whether his h/cap is correct or not is the player him/herself and if they feel it's too high, CUT THEM.

If they consequently cant play to it, they've only got themselves to blame.

 

[BTatHome]

Except the OP doesn't appear to be able to the higher handicap he has when in a medal. Surely that's the wrong way around.

I have no idea why congu is used here, and could care less what is listed in the 96 page booklet. it works for me, and I still play well in society games too.

 

[LCVreg]

Here's my view on this.

In the old days, players could get cut on social play.
Match play was 3/4s h/cap.
And it worked very well for many years.

Then someone changed the rules.

Now, you cant get cut on social/society play unless you fulfill the list of rules laid down by the club officers in line with Congu's directives.
Therefor people like the OP ends up with a h/cap that is too high and DOESN'T REFLECT HIS/HER CURRENT PLAYING ABILITY.
Therefor the playing field is no longer level.

So now his h/cap is too high and when and if he plays in a knock-out, he aslo gets full handicp difference.

The only person who knows whether his h/cap is correct or not is the player him/herself and if they feel it's too high, CUT THEM.

If they consequently cant play to it, they've only got themselves to blame.

Well said!