Tom Waton to blame?

[Deleted member 15344]

I believe Watson should shoulder a great deal of blame starting from his Wildcard picks then onto his partnerships etc

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I believe Watson should shoulder a great deal of blame starting from his Wildcard picks then onto his partnerships etc

Why? You can argue that wild cards at any time on either side are a gamble but I don't see why he'd need to shoulder the blame for the poor foursomes showing and the way some of his side performed in the singles. Most were there by right and frankly didn't deliver

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The captain picked those players to play together - McGinley found partnerships that gelled - Watson didnt

McGinley moved his players around in practise - Watson didnt

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The captain picked those players to play together - McGinley found partnerships that gelled - Watson didnt

McGinley moved his players around in practise - Watson didnt

Up to a point I agree. Practice is the ideal time to try a few things and he did seem reluctant to rock the boat and split cliquey groups up. However once you pick a pairing they have to deliver and frankly the US didn't

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And then when his players did deliver he didn't pick them

And then again didbt pick a winning partnership from the previous day

Yep Watson takes a great deal of the blame

 

[El Bandito]

No direspect but what an awful foursomes partner you would make, if that is how you see this format.

To be succesful you need to play with your partner, not as an individual. You have to remember your partner is hitting the next shot, not you. You need to think along the same lines so if something goes wrong then you do not see it as your partner making the wrong decision, you just see it as a bad shot.

Awful foursomes partner! Pretty fair, I think. But then I'm not much good in four balls either.

I do have a cracking "Fore" shout though.

I appreciate that there are some subtleties to the format, but I do not see that at the elevated level that these guys play at, that there are many decisions influenced by the choice of partner. If you were playing with Rory or Gmac - which shot would you approach differently?

Also - I thought one of the commentators said that historically - the Americans had done better in foursomes than four balls.

 

[gdc]

And then when his players did deliver he didn't pick them

And then again didbt pick a winning partnership from the previous day

Yep Watson takes a great deal of the blame

Maybe he dropped Spieth reed in the foursomes on day 1 because he wanted all his players to have a run out. How could he drop mickle son Bradley with their record? Was he to know that they would then go on to play crap?

what winning partnership from day 1? Do you mean mickleson Bradley again who had just finished the day before playing crap with mickleson looking knackered?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Maybe he dropped Spieth reed in the foursomes on day 1 because he wanted all his players to have a run out. How could he drop mickle son Bradley with their record? Was he to know that they would then go on to play crap?

what winning partnership from day 1? Do you mean mickleson Bradley again who had just finished the day before playing crap with mickleson looking knackered?

Reed and Speith smashed their oppo and should have been straight back out

Watching both Bradley and Mickleson in the fourballs you could see that playing foursomes in their form would be bad news with their erratic shots but in Fourballs they could get away with it

As well as continuing to play Walker and Fowler in every match

 

[gdc]

Reed and Speith smashed their oppo and should have been straight back out

Watching both Bradley and Mickleson in the fourballs you could see that playing foursomes in their form would be bad news with their erratic shots but in Fourballs they could get away with it

As well as continuing to play Walker and Fowler in every match

Bradley mickelson played 4 won 4. How can you drop them?
did mcginley drop McIlroy Garcia who lost to the players you would have dropped?

why should he have dropped walker fowler they were unbeaten until final foursome?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Bradley mickelson played 4 won 4. How can you drop them?
did mcginley drop McIlroy Garcia who lost to the players you would have dropped?

why should he have dropped walker fowler they were unbeaten until final foursome?

You can drop them by reacting to how they were playing that weekend as opposed to 2 years ago.

And Fowler and Walker were going to the 18th every game and that will take an effect on the players.

These were all observations people were making whilst it was going on

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You can drop them by reacting to how they were playing that weekend as opposed to 2 years ago.

And Fowler and Walker were going to the 18th every game and that will take an effect on the players.

These were all observations people were making whilst it was going on

Observations yes, but just that and clearly Watson had his own ideas. That's what every captain does. Some get it wrong like Faldo did big style and some like Olazabel don't necessarily get it right but get away with it in the end. It's about the final score. He clearly got day 1 right and it wouldn't have taken much for the US to have had a lead instead of Europe. It's fine margins and one would hazard to guess that Watson would have discussed all the options with the VC's and got some input from them if not the senior players as well

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Observations yes, but just that and clearly Watson had his own ideas. That's what every captain does. Some get it wrong like Faldo did big style and some like Olazabel don't necessarily get it right but get away with it in the end. It's about the final score. He clearly got day 1 right and it wouldn't have taken much for the US to have had a lead instead of Europe. It's fine margins and one would hazard to guess that Watson would have discussed all the options with the VC's and got some input from them if not the senior players as well

But at the end of the day the US team got it wrong

They had a couple of moments that kept it respectable but they got thumped and just as Faldo take a lot of the blame for 2008 - Watson take a good deal of blame for this defeat

 

[gdc]

You can drop them by reacting to how they were playing that weekend as opposed to 2 years ago.

And Fowler and Walker were going to the 18th every game and that will take an effect on the players.

These were all observations people were making whilst it was going on

i know you could have dropped them but it would have taken a brave man to drop them over 2 rookies on the basis of 1 round when they have a 100% record together. Imagine if he did and Spieth reed lost - he would be getting an even bigger slagging off.

the only time I heard people saying walker fowler were looking tired was after they were 4 down - more easy hindsight. And I thought they looked deflated more than tired as you would be when 4 down. do we know for sure that Watson hadn't asked them if they were good for the afternoon?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

i know you could have dropped them but it would have taken a brave man to drop them over 2 rookies on the basis of 1 round when they have a 100% record together. Imagine if he did and Spieth reed lost - he would be getting an even bigger slagging off.

the only time I heard people saying walker fowler were looking tired was after they were 4 down - more easy hindsight. And I thought they looked deflated more than tired as you would be when 4 down. do we know for sure that Watson hadn't asked them if they were good for the afternoon?

As soon as the morning players for Saturday were announced I heard both Butch and Monty question it as well as Mickleson and Bradley not get picked


And people appeared shocked that Spieth and Reed didn't get picked - as for what if they lost - well that would have made zero difference as Mickleson and Bradley got stuffed

McGinley got one pairing wrong and rectified that mistake - Watson kept on making them

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Watson take a good deal of blame for this defeat

I'm sorry but once you pick a side, the golfers have to deliver and I'd say the likes of Bubba and Kuchar let the captain down

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm sorry but once you pick a side, the golfers have to deliver and I'd say the likes of Bubba and Kuchar let the captain down

Why sorry ?

No one has said the players are without blame and the players not stepping up doesn't excuse the person who picked some of them and built the pairs teams

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Why sorry ?

No one has said the players are without blame and the players not stepping up doesn't excuse the person who picked some of them and built the pairs teams

Of course it does. Same as any sport, Watson was the manager (albeit under a different name) and picked the side he thought would do a job and then the players under performed. No different to a football gaffer, cricket coach or rugby coach naming a side and they put in an inept performance. I don't care who Watson or nay RC captain puts out, there is no cast iron guarantee those players will perform. Who's fault is that. Not the captain. Certainly not in my book.

Watson didn't make any of these decisions alone and would have taken advice from VC's and perhaps even senior players. I fail to see why you are so set that Watson has to shoulder the full responsibility

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Of course it does. Same as any sport, Watson was the manager (albeit under a different name) and picked the side he thought would do a job and then the players under performed. No different to a football gaffer, cricket coach or rugby coach naming a side and they put in an inept performance. I don't care who Watson or nay RC captain puts out, there is no cast iron guarantee those players will perform. Who's fault is that. Not the captain. Certainly not in my book.

Watson didn't make any of these decisions alone and would have taken advice from VC's and perhaps even senior players. I fail to see why you are so set that Watson has to shoulder the full responsibility

When did I say Watson has shoulder the full responsibility?

 

[gdc]

As soon as the morning players for Saturday were announced I heard both Butch and Monty question it as well as Mickleson and Bradley not get picked


And people appeared shocked that Spieth and Reed didn't get picked - as for what if they lost - well that would have made zero difference as Mickleson and Bradley got stuffed

McGinley got one pairing wrong and rectified that mistake - Watson kept on making them

look we are going to carry on disagreeing that's clear.
if Spieth and reed got stuffed the press would have said how can you drop a perfect combination - Watson is to blame.

mcginley got McIlroy Garcia wrong. It was a nob of a pairing. If the usa get beat by them they say ok that's somewhat expected given they are 1 and 3 in the world. Even more they have weakened other pairings by playing their 2 best players together. Furthermore if they could turn them over what a dagger to the heart for Europe losing a NAP. How did it turn out half a point from the first day.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

When did I say Watson has shoulder the full responsibility?

Maybe not "full" but...I believe Watson should shoulder a great deal of blame starting from his Wildcard picks then onto his partnerships etc and the inference is clear. Compare the wild cards to the performance of Bubba and Kuchar and they did their bit. Can't see anyone having a pop at McGinley because Gallagher lost all his matches.

As always you'll argue infinitely and as GDC it'll carry on so I'll disagree with you and move on