Tom Waton to blame?

[Stuey01]

I think they just can't play as a team.

They won the Fourballs 5 - 3
Lost the singles 6.5 - 5.5
So they actually won 10.5 - 9.5, that is if you only take the results when they had to only worry about their own game.

But when they got made to play as a team and not just for themself they got hammered 7 - 1. I do not blame Tom, these men a top tour golfers and they just can't play foursomes. Did Tom get 7 pairings wrong? He might have made a couple of mistakes but I'm sure he can't be blamed for the way his team performed when asked to play foursomes. Even if they had lost them 5 - 3 they would have gone into Sunday all square.

Leave Tom alone and put the players up there to be abused, I blame them.

Spot on.

The fourballs were convincingly won by the USA, the singles was close and at one point looked to be going their way. The problem was the foursomes, they got humped, not even winning a match.

I'm enjoying the recriminations and bile over on GolfWRX, it's hilarious. But no-one seems to have picked up on this foursomes point.

 

[garyinderry]

In contrast I can imagine McGinley telling Gallagher that his job was not necessarily to win against Mickleson, but to go out and hold him for as long as possible to give time to get Blue on the board before red.

Alex Ferguson was brought in as a motivational speaker, not David Moyes.

 

[muttleee]

I think Tom was picked as someone who would be respected by the Scottish crowds rather than someone who could get the best from a team. I do think he made mistakes and was unwise to criticise players who hadn't performed as well as expected - can you imagine McGinley saying anything like that about any of his players? Watson said himself that Reed and Spieth were "mad" at not getting a game on Friday afternoon and Mickelson was angry at not playing on Saturday at all.

Watson was too old and out of touch and some of his vice captains were even older. I don't think he should have been picked in the first place and it's Ted Bishop (president of the PGA of America) who has to take the blame for his appointment. Yes you have to expect good players to play well when it counts but what is a captain for if not to get the best out of his already great players? Just look at a football team like Man Utd...full of star players for years (pre Fergie) but couldn't win the league. They brought in an inspired manager and never looked back.

Although the US obviously hates to lose, I don't think they 'need' to win the Ryder Cup the way Europe does and so don't have the same motivation. Monty said last night that the win was fantastic news for the European Tour...can you picture any American captain saying that a win is great news for the US PGA Tour? (Assuming you can picture an American captain winning in the first place, of course ) Of course Monty makes a big deal of the Ryder Cup because he has a great record in it and no majors whereas the likes of Tiger and Phil have plenty of majors and poor Cup records. Maybe if European players had dominated the majors over the last 20 years they wouldn't get quite so excited about the Ryder Cup!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Alex Ferguson was brought in as a motivational speaker, not David Moyes.

Enjoying the interviews and stuff today and picked up a subtle gem in McGinley's press conference....

He was talking about going at them in waves and if they don't break through at first they'll just keep coming and coming until it happens. "The way Man Utd used to play"

 

[HawkeyeMS]

What exactly is a "game plan" in the Ryder Cup? Surely the only game plan is to try to play well and win isn't it? It's not like you can try out different formations or shut up shop like you do in football. Sure there's a bit more to it in foresomes like deciding who tees off on which holes and trying to give your partner a good yardage for his shot but aside from that, there really isn't much to be done tactically.

 

[macca64]

What exactly is a "game plan" in the Ryder Cup? Surely the only game plan is to try to play well and win isn't it? It's not like you can try out different formations or shut up shop like you do in football. Sure there's a bit more to it in foresomes like deciding who tees off on which holes and trying to give your partner a good yardage for his shot but aside from that, there really isn't much to be done tactically.

Pretty much the same thoughts as above,all you can do is try and win as many holes as you can.

 

[Hickory_Hacker]

Is Watson responsible for the loss in value for 2 x three woods that are up for sale on eBay ... New but with sky marks :fore:

He can't get blamed for everything

 

[MadAdey]

What exactly is a "game plan" in the Ryder Cup? Surely the only game plan is to try to play well and win isn't it? It's not like you can try out different formations or shut up shop like you do in football. Sure there's a bit more to it in foresomes like deciding who tees off on which holes and trying to give your partner a good yardage for his shot but aside from that, there really isn't much to be done tactically.

Getting those foursomes correct is what lost it for them, so it is vitally important to have some kind of structure and plan when it comes to it. Getting the right partner for foursomes is not easy, I personally do not like to play with a conservative golfer. I hate standing there watching someone play the easy option, instead of the shot I know they can play, when I would have gone for the the 220 yard carry over the crap to the green. Likewise a conservative golfer maybe wouldn't appreciate me grabbing the driver and trying to knock the ball over tress on a dogleg and just accepting what ever happens. Some golfers hit lots of bogeys, but have lots of birdies to counter it. Some golfers do not get many birdies, but then do not drop many shots either. Both will end up with the same score, it is just how they get there.

Foursomes to me takes a change in the what you play at times. Take big hitter, he might go driver and then attack the pin with an 8i. Problem is now having to play from his partners tee shot he might have a 4/5i in hand, so attacking the pin like he would normally is maybe not an option and needs to play differently. It can't be easy together the pairings correct for foursomes, but if the players aren't willing to accept that they may need to play differently then what can the captain do?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

B

Getting those foursomes correct is what lost it for them, so it is vitally important to have some kind of structure and plan when it comes to it. Getting the right partner for foursomes is not easy, I personally do not like to play with a conservative golfer. I hate standing there watching someone play the easy option, instead of the shot I know they can play, when I would have gone for the the 220 yard carry over the crap to the green. Likewise a conservative golfer maybe wouldn't appreciate me grabbing the driver and trying to knock the ball over tress on a dogleg and just accepting what ever happens. Some golfers hit lots of bogeys, but have lots of birdies to counter it. Some golfers do not get many birdies, but then do not drop many shots either. Both will end up with the same score, it is just how they get there.

Foursomes to me takes a change in the what you play at times. Take big hitter, he might go driver and then attack the pin with an 8i. Problem is now having to play from his partners tee shot he might have a 4/5i in hand, so attacking the pin like he would normally is maybe not an option and needs to play differently. It can't be easy together the pairings correct for foursomes, but if the players aren't willing to accept that they may need to play differently then what can the captain do?

What the pros do and what we do are very different things. It's easy to say Watson got it wrong, but It's just possible that the pairings weren't wrong, they just got beaten.

 

[richy]

B

What the pros do and what we do are very different things. It's easy to say Watson got it wrong, but It's just possible that the pairings weren't wrong, they just got beaten.

Watson has to take some of the blame as well as the players.

Not sure why people are so insistent on not blaming him at all.

 

[ger147]

It's all Mourinho's fault!!

 

[c1973]

What exactly is a "game plan" in the Ryder Cup? Surely the only game plan is to try to play well and win isn't it? It's not like you can try out different formations or shut up shop like you do in football. Sure there's a bit more to it in foresomes like deciding who tees off on which holes and trying to give your partner a good yardage for his shot but aside from that, there really isn't much to be done tactically.

Correct.

My 'game plan' is pretty much this; try and get it on the fairway, try and get it near the green, try and get it near the hole and try and get it in the hole. I reckon a game plan for golf really is that simple, it's the execution that's tricky........and that has bugger all to do with the captain!

Most of his team never performed, it's as simple as that.

 

[MadAdey]

B

What the pros do and what we do are very different things. It's easy to say Watson got it wrong, but It's just possible that the pairings weren't wrong, they just got beaten.

When it comes to things like finding people compatable for foursomes, I do not think we are much different to the pros. You get one pro that stands with a 260 carry to the green over water and he just lays up, another will grab for the 3w, give it a rip and take the penalty if it goes wrong. What do you do, lay it up when you know you want to go for it, or give it a rip and penalise your partner too when it goes wrong. I think in foursomes it is very important that the players have a similar mindset. Who I use to play with in foursomes was not the same as in Fourballs. I had a nice steady partner for Fourballs which suited me, but who I played foursomes with had a similar mindset of just go for it and if it goes wrong, who cares.

im not saying Watson was to blame, or the players where to be honest. For what ever reason Watson picked those pairings and either he got them wrong or the players just can't play in that format. I've known good players with low handicaps before that just do not get on with foursomes golf.

 

[Hickory_Hacker]

Feherty on the Morning Drive show saying that they could've sent out the American team in order of height and it still wouldn't have made any difference :rofl:

Happy days

 

[El Bandito]

Not a stats man - but it seems to me that this time - the Euro Team were stronger than the US Team and were expected to win. They won.

At times - it looked as though it might go either way.

I don't buy the whole team ethos thing. Americans love and understand team sport as much as we do.

Whatever format - golf isn't a team sport anyway.

Foursomes. "Partner - how would you like me to drive this differently than I would try to in singles? - Oh? Long and straight is it? That must be where I am going wrong"

Poppycock.

Two teams of incredibly skilled, professional sportsman played some great golf (and some less good golf). The team widely perceived to be a little bit better, won.

 

[MadAdey]

Foursomes. "Partner - how would you like me to drive this differently than I would try to in singles? - Oh? Long and straight is it? That must be where I am going wrong"

Poppycock.
.

No direspect but what an awful foursomes partner you would make, if that is how you see this format.

To be succesful you need to play with your partner, not as an individual. You have to remember your partner is hitting the next shot, not you. You need to think along the same lines so if something goes wrong then you do not see it as your partner making the wrong decision, you just see it as a bad shot.

 

[garyinderry]

In all fairness I don't think there was much subtly about the golf over the weekend. If it was possible to get near the green the players went for it. The only time anyone laid up was when they were in fairway bunkers or had completely no shot.

This being the case, it made it pretty much irrelevant who your partner was.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Watson has to take some of the blame as well as the players.

Not sure why people are so insistent on not blaming him at all.

Watson no doubt made mistakes, as I'm sure McGinley did. The only difference is that Europe's players played better. If we'd have lost, McGinley would be getting stick and Watson the plaudits

 

[muttleee]

In a Ryder Cup preview programme, Sky asked a lot of players if they thought it was more important for fourball/foursomes partners to have complimentary golf games or similar personalities. I don't recall any of them saying that neither mattered.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Watson arguably made selection mistakes on the Saturday but you really have to rely on the players you pick to deliver. Why couldn't the US play foursomes this time round? They've made a better fist of it before