Tom Waton to blame?

[JustOne]

As is the way of things the 'coach' has to take a kicking for not winning and many of his 'mistakes' have been well written already event though no one really knows if Speith/Reed might have won a foursomes game on Friday if they'd have been played or if Mickelson/Bradley might have won if they'd played Saturday, all just speculation, BUT was it just that the USA players just lost?

Furyk was leading and lost
Zack Johnson didn't close out the deal against a 'newbie' Dubuisson.
Mahan folded again
Speith lost a huge lead
Simpson couldn't beat an out of form Poulter
Fowler got smashed (albeit he probably couldn't stop McIlroy who was inspired)

Not all games can be won, 12-0 in the singles is very unlikely, but did his players simply let him down?



Thoughts?....

 

[gripitripit]

He has to take some blame. Got some pairings wring and admitted that but some of the players also did not turn up and perform..... However take nothing away from a fantastic European win. Not as nerve-wracking or exciting as 2 years ago but some dominating golf.

 

[garyinderry]

Bubba Watson was more to blame than poor Tom!

 

[MadAdey]

I think they just can't play as a team.

They won the Fourballs 5 - 3
Lost the singles 6.5 - 5.5
So they actually won 10.5 - 9.5, that is if you only take the results when they had to only worry about their own game.

But when they got made to play as a team and not just for themself they got hammered 7 - 1. I do not blame Tom, these men a top tour golfers and they just can't play foursomes. Did Tom get 7 pairings wrong? He might have made a couple of mistakes but I'm sure he can't be blamed for the way his team performed when asked to play foursomes. Even if they had lost them 5 - 3 they would have gone into Sunday all square.

Leave Tom alone and put the players up there to be abused, I blame them.

 

[3565]

I think they just can't play as a team.

They won the Fourballs 5 - 3
Lost the singles 6.5 - 5.5
So they actually won 10.5 - 9.5, that is if you only take the results when they had to only worry about their own game.

But when they got made to play as a team and not just for themself they got hammered 7 - 1. I do not blame Tom, these men a top tour golfers and they just can't play foursomes. Did Tom get 7 pairings wrong? He might have made a couple of mistakes but I'm sure he can't be blamed for the way his team performed when asked to play foursomes. Even if they had lost them 5 - 3 they would have gone into Sunday all square.

Leave Tom alone and put the players up there to be abused, I blame them.

totally agree.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Can't see how Tom can be blamed. The players simply didn't perform when needed. They only got 1 point out of 8 in the foursomes (2 halves) and there was nothing wrong on paper with the pairings apart from Mickelson/Bradley playing on Friday instead of Reed/Speith. Would you really expect Johnson/Furyk/Mahan/Kuchar between them to come away empty handed from their 4 foursomes?

Most of the time the Europeans simply outplayed the Americans, not just winning points but salvaging halves when they should have lost. Rose and McIlroy were simply superb - better than anyone on the US team. Where was their leader on the course? I might have put Phil out first on Sunday to take on that role and maybe that would have got his team going but other than that I think it was really about who played the best golf and there isn't much the Captain can do about that.

I noticed that McDowell said it took him a bit of time to get into his singles as he hadn't had much course time having only played foursomes. He didn't use it an excuse or blame McGinley he just got on with it and handed Speith a lesson in digging deep and winning when it matters.

 

[richy]

I don't think he is the reason the US lost but he did make some strange decisions that probably winning margin larger than it may have been.

Not playing Reed/Spieth in afternoon session and completely resting Phil on saturday.

 

[Tommo21]

Simple answer, the players let Watson down more than Watson let them down.....by a long stretch. USA expects to win, Europe want to win and want to win bad. Rory is the prime example in comparison to Tiger in days gone by. Rory is a fully committed team player, Tiger was not.
There was a few mistakes from the European players, but not as many as from the USA.

 

[BubbaP]

Agree with much of above. Think Tom felt he maybe made a mistake for Friday afternoon, and perhaps overcompensated. But as JO says just speculation - when Reed/Speith did have the chance in the afternoon they did not play too well, and luckily for them neither did their opponents.

Not wanting to take off track (much), but I think some of above could be replayed for 2008 also. Most will agree that Faldo was a good golfer but a v poor public speaker. Objectively though, I thought the US team, especially the likes of Kim, Boo, Holmes played really well - perhaps better than they might have expected and that was the main reason the result was how it was.

Sure in every winning team some of the 12 won't have agreed with everything but are more likely to keep stum, after a loss it is nature to look for a reason. If GMac had not turned his match around, his comments on not playing may have been viewed differently. Sure he would have preferred to have been involved in the four balls, but he walks away with played 3, won 3.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I don't disagree that Watson made some mistakes in his pair-ups, but by the same token the senior players should have been offering advice and help not only to the other players but to the Captain as well. Mickelson might be moaning he didn't play saturday, but from what I saw of him friday afternoon he ran out of steam quite easily. Perhaps he should have been more honest with Watson and told him to not put him out in the afternoon friday in order for the team to have a better chance.

 

[Roops]

The US are a load individuals playing in a team, Europe are a team playing against individuals. Watson was not to blame, he can't hit the shots, that's down to his players and when it came down to it they couldn't hack it.

 

[One Planer]

Simple answer, the players let Watson down more than Watson let them down.....by a long stretch. USA expects to win, Europe want to win and want to win bad. Rory is the prime example in comparison to Tiger in days gone by. Rory is a fully committed team player, Tiger was not.
There was a few mistakes from the European players, but not as many as from the USA.

Perfectly summed up in my view.

 

[Spuddy]

I don't disagree that Watson made some mistakes in his pair-ups, but by the same token the senior players should have been offering advice and help not only to the other players but to the Captain as well. Mickelson might be moaning he didn't play saturday, but from what I saw of him friday afternoon he ran out of steam quite easily. Perhaps he should have been more honest with Watson and told him to not put him out in the afternoon friday in order for the team to have a better chance.

I think that was Phil's point. Watson did his own thing and didn't involve the players

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think they just can't play as a team.

They won the Fourballs 5 - 3
Lost the singles 6.5 - 5.5
So they actually won 10.5 - 9.5, that is if you only take the results when they had to only worry about their own game.

But when they got made to play as a team and not just for themself they got hammered 7 - 1. I do not blame Tom, these men a top tour golfers and they just can't play foursomes. Did Tom get 7 pairings wrong? He might have made a couple of mistakes but I'm sure he can't be blamed for the way his team performed when asked to play foursomes. Even if they had lost them 5 - 3 they would have gone into Sunday all square.

Leave Tom alone and put the players up there to be abused, I blame them.

Absolutely

 

[Francisceo]

there was a lack of team spirit - you can clearly see that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I heard before hand all of the things that Mickleson pointed out. Watson hardly involved anyone in the preparation - and did the team have a game plan.

In contrast I can imagine McGinley telling Gallagher that his job was not necessarily to win against Mickleson, but to go out and hold him for as long as possible to give time to get Blue on the board before red. In that way Gallagher knows his specific role in the team and is totally involved, and feels less disappointed if he loses as long as he does what has been asked of him.

 

[One Planer]

I heard before hand all of the things that Mickleson pointed out. Watson hardly involved anyone in the preparation - and did the team have a game plan.

In contrast I can imagine McGinley telling Gallagher that his job was not necessarily to win against Mickleson, but to go out and hold him for as long as possible to give time to get Blue on the board before red. In that way Gallagher knows his specific role in the team and is totally involved, and feels less disappointed if he loses as long as he does what has been asked of him.

That's a very interesting way of looking at that match :thup:

 

[Jimaroid]

I think this situation just emphasises something I've often argued about - that the best sportsmen don't necessarily make the best managers or captains. Being a good team manager is a different skill from being accomplished at the sport and it's maybe something that Mickleson might come to realise in the future.

It happens at club level too. Being a low handicap golfer doesn't automatically mean you know the most about the sport and how to run a golf club effectively for example. If you look at it totally pragmatically, it should be obvious that managing teams of people effectively is a different skillset from hitting a ball well.

I really respect Tom Watson, but he's made a bad job of it this time. It's not helped by the fact he had the weaker team to field and the experienced players like Mickleson just didn't play well enough. Watson made mistakes in captaincy in the same way Mickleson made mistakes on the course. That Mickleson can't accept that just makes him look bitter and selfish. I find that quite telling because those traits are exactly the things you don't want to see in people for them to perform well in a team.

Mickleson is right in that the USA needs to evaluate and rebuild their sense of team. However, the way he's going on about it is just singling him out as one of the causes of the issue instead of the solution.

 

[gdc]

In contrast I can imagine McGinley telling Gallagher that his job was not necessarily to win against Mickleson, but to go out and hold him for as long as possible to give time to get Blue on the board before red. In that way Gallagher knows his specific role in the team and is totally involved, and feels less disappointed if he loses as long as he does what has been asked of him.

If he did do that he would be the worst captain EVER.

 

[MarkA]

The US are a load individuals playing in a team, Europe are a team playing against individuals. Watson was not to blame, he can't hit the shots, that's down to his players and when it came down to it they couldn't hack it.

Spot on - plus the fact ive never seen a more miserable looking bunch of individuals!