Tom Doak - Confidential Guide

[matt611]

I have just received my copy of Doaks newly updated confidential guide and thought I would would post some comparisons to the GM top 100.

It is worth noting that Doak scores courses out of 10 and does not intend the scores to be used to rank courses, nonetheless the book does have an appendix which features all courses ranked by their score. It is also worth noting that Doak (and the other 3 assessors) are focused a little more on the architectural merit of a course as opposed to the GM top 100 which has a more holistic approach.

Some courses which are in Doaks top 100 but not GM
Kington
Royal Portrush (valley)
Askernish
Huntercombe

Some courses which are in Doak top 30 and their GM rank in brackets
Cruden Bay (89)
County Sligo (93)
Rye (58)
Prestwick (46)
West Sussex (55)
Swinley Forest (38)
Royal Worlington & Newmarket (next 100)

Some course in GM top 100 but not Doak top 100
St Andrews (Castle)
Sherwood Forest
Druids Glen
Blairegowrie (rosemount)
Parkstone
Woburn (Duchess)
Wentworth (east)

I thought I would put this up just to get another view.

The book is very interesting and worth a read, although a little expensive. I have only put up a few of the differences so as not to ruin the surprise of the book.

 

[Duckster]

Some course in GM top 100 but not Doak top 100
St Andrews (Castle)
Sherwood Forest
Druids Glen
Blairegowrie (rosemount)
Parkstone
Woburn (Duchess)
Wentworth (east)

Didn't Doak infamously rate it as "0"? A course designed by one of his main rivals, David Kidd....

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Tom Doak has always had a reputation for being 'quirky' at best. He posts a lot on golfclubatlas which is a closed forum mainly frequented by people interested in the architechtural side of golf courses. Quite an interesting website, well worth a read just to see some of the views people have on there.

Probably fair to say his tastes are different from mine

 

[davidy233]

I'm with Tom on the Valley at Portrush - wonderful course

 

[Ethan]

Tom Doak is an interesting character. I tend to sympathize towards his rankings compared to the GM ones. As David says, The Valley is a tremendous course, one of the best 'little brother' courses around. Golf Architecture aficionados tend to like 'quirk' in their courses, hence Huntercombe and Askernish, and I agree with his promotion of County Sligo and Cruden Bay and his demotion of several of those in matt's post. I haven't heard his opinion of Brabazon Belfry but I would be amazed if he thinks it is any good.

Hard to argue with the quality of his work or his credentials and therefore the validity of his opinions. But his perspective is rather different from the average GM reader.

Golf Club Atlas is available for anyone to read, including many interesting reviews, and quite a bit of UK and Ireland coverage but posting requires membership which requires approval. I got approved, so it can't be based on having much real knowledge. As an aside, Lloyd Cole (ask your Dad, younger readers) of Lloyd Cole and the Commotions fame, is a keen golfer and member too and posts from time to time.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Ethan, I was a big Lloyd Cole fan, what name does he post under?

 

[patricks148]

Ethan, I was a big Lloyd Cole fan, what name does he post under?

me too, i remember going to a gig he did in St Albans Civic center supported by the Blow Monkeys in about 1986, me and my 3 mates were the only people there.

 

[Ethan]

Ethan, I was a big Lloyd Cole fan, what name does he post under?

Very open username:

Lloyd_Cole

He lives in New York State these days and his teenager son is apparently a pretty decent golfer and they take trips to Scotland (and other places) to play.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Very open username:

Lloyd_Cole

Are you sure that's not Morrissey using a pseudonym

 

[Foxholer]

Tom Doak's focus is (near) 100% on the Golf Course.

So not surprising that there the ratings vary!

I think I'm somewhat in-between the 2 styles in the way I rate 'courses'.

 

[Ethan]

Are you sure that's not Morrissey using a pseudonym

Nah, Morrissey isn't big on the question of whether fairways should be firm and fast.

 

[patricks148]

Very open username:

Lloyd_Cole

He lives in New York State these days and his teenager son is apparently a pretty decent golfer and they take trips to Scotland (and other places) to play.

he played on his own in front of our 4 ball at Nairn a couple of years ago when he did a solo gig at Eden Court.

 

[matt611]

Didn't Doak infamously rate it as "0"? A course designed by one of his main rivals, David Kidd....

Yes he still gives it 0 and the write up is negative. However 2 of the other assesors give it 5 which is "well above average"

I'm with Tom on the Valley at Portrush - wonderful course

Yes Doak really rates the Valley course and considers it the most underrated course in Ireland

I haven't heard his opinion of Brabazon Belfry but I would be amazed if he thinks it is any good.

"almost completely forgettable" bar the 10th and 18th.

Ethan you may be interested to know that Enniscrone is in Doaks top 100, although he is not entirely complementary about it. Mike said that were the top 100 down to him Enniscrone would make the GM top 100

 

[drewster]

Ethan, I was a big Lloyd Cole fan, what name does he post under?

Likewise , Perfect Skin, was one of the anthems of my youth. I follow Lloyd Cole on Twitter and he makes loads of references to golf but didn't realise he was a contributor on here too. Be great for him "to reveal himself" so to speak.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Ethan you may be interested to know that Enniscrone is in Doaks top 100, although he is not entirely complementary about it. Mike said that were the top 100 down to him Enniscrone would make the GM top 100

I would rate Enniscrone way up in the Top 100 if it was down to me, certainly top 30!

 

[Foxholer]

Ethan, I was a big Lloyd Cole fan, what name does he post under?

Likewise , Perfect Skin, was one of the anthems of my youth. I follow Lloyd Cole on Twitter and he makes loads of references to golf but didn't realise he was a contributor on here too. Be great for him "to reveal himself" so to speak.

The way I read it 'Lloyd_Cole'!

 

[Ethan]

The way I read it 'Lloyd_Cole'!

Yes, he uses an underscore between the names!

 

[Ethan]

I would rate Enniscrone way up in the Top 100 if it was down to me, certainly top 30!

I haven't played Enniscrone, but it and Carne rate highly among GCA members.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I haven't played Enniscrone, but it and Carne rate highly among GCA members.

Played them both, loved them both! Carne is a brilliant example of letting nature design the course, Hackett had very little to do. I would go back in a heartbeat to play them both again. I remember hitting a career 3 wood into the wind to get onto the 18th green

 

[Ethan]

Likewise , Perfect Skin, was one of the anthems of my youth. I follow Lloyd Cole on Twitter and he makes loads of references to golf but didn't realise he was a contributor on here too. Be great for him "to reveal himself" so to speak.

Lloyd Cole is interviewed on Episode 49 of State of the Game podcast, available via iTunes.