MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Think he saw if as a once in a lifetime opportunity to tell Ms Most Influential to go swivel
....
Theresa May - Not up to the Job of PM?
- Thread starter SwingsitlikeHogan
- Start date
Think he saw if as a once in a lifetime opportunity to tell Ms Most Influential to go swivel
....
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Yep, the stronge EU was very keen to help out and be tough when Russia invaded Ukraine. Wait a minute, France and Germany ran away from implementing any real sanctions and the Netherlands who lost a civil plane and citizens were conspicuous by their silence.
Seems everyone forgets history.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Financialy it would cripple FIFA and provide a loss of much needed revenue to Russia ( two birds with one stone) but unfortunately football is more important than trying to suppress the finances of Russia.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
So have we heard yet what May is going to do...
According to Trump yesterday he was going to be speaking to her yesterday evening - hope she put him in his place and told him some truths from his countries best and favourite ally - that with which his country has a 'special relationship'.
Mind you - Trump won't be happy as it looks like the Dems won the Special House election in Western Pennsylvania yesterday - this being Trump and GOP heartland. I await his 'buck passing'. But whatever he says - rubbish as it might often be - it will have been him wot lost it for the GOP.
According to Trump yesterday he was going to be speaking to her yesterday evening - hope she put him in his place and told him some truths from his countries best and favourite ally - that with which his country has a 'special relationship'.
Mind you - Trump won't be happy as it looks like the Dems won the Special House election in Western Pennsylvania yesterday - this being Trump and GOP heartland. I await his 'buck passing'. But whatever he says - rubbish as it might often be - it will have been him wot lost it for the GOP.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Reasonable and appropriate measures from May I think.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
We only have her word for it that the nerve gas was actually produced in Russia.
It looks like she has refused to provide a 'sample' for the Russians.
Something a bit smelly about this one I think.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
nah - the request from Russia was simply an act to delay things and then when we did not provide them with it as a smokescreen for denial. She didn't answer Corbyn's question on whether we have provided a sample to the Russians - why would we?
The Russians don't care. This is Putin putting up Russia / Putin against the world to bolster his standing.
BTW - did you know that Russia's economy is smaller than Italy's? now I didn't - but I found out at lunchtime. Russia is in an economic mess and Putin needs all the brownie points he can garner to maintain his internal popularity.
We could supply a sample to a neutral country, allow Russian scientists to be present whilst it is being tested. Reverse the position. If the Russians accused of us killing a spy on Russian soil would you accept their word that Britain was responsible or would you want to see evidence and test if for yourself or at least have it tested by a neutral lab?
It may well be Russia, the evidence may point to Russia but there is a dance to be performed. At the moment we are playing into their hands by making us look like the bullying, lying West. Easy for Putin to spin this back home. Collect the evidence, present the evidence and then point the finger.
The Russian economy may be smaller than Italy's but their military is not and their cyber attacks are highly effective. We need to be engaging with them as best as we can and if we can't then we need to present the evidence to the rest of the world in a way that gives Russia nowhere to hide.
It may well be Russia, the evidence may point to Russia but there is a dance to be performed. At the moment we are playing into their hands by making us look like the bullying, lying West. Easy for Putin to spin this back home. Collect the evidence, present the evidence and then point the finger.
The Russian economy may be smaller than Italy's but their military is not and their cyber attacks are highly effective. We need to be engaging with them as best as we can and if we can't then we need to present the evidence to the rest of the world in a way that gives Russia nowhere to hide.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
No we wouldn't accept the accusation - but then we wouldn't be that likely to do such an attack. But the point is fair. Do we know which laboratories have identified the agent as novichok. Give a sample to Russia - two responses - Yes - we made it but didn't use it - and they are not going to say that as making it is in breach of conventions on chemical warfare; No - nothing to do with us - gets us nowhere.
The point about the economy is that sanctions are hitting Russia's economy very, very hard indeed, and it's manufacturing infrastructure is aging and falling apart; and so Putin will do almost anything that deflects criticism of him over that - and makes out he is standing up for Russia and Russians.
And though what he does might seem reckless and illogical to us - with acts such as this attack given the obviousness and traceability back to Russia - Putin does not care - it is simply calculated to provoke a response from 'the west' that he can use for his own internal purposes.
Last edited:
U
User62651
Guest
Happy with May's response, she's shown a bit of leadership over this.
Hard to believe when the USSR broke up and Gorbachev was making a lot of progress bringing Russia toward democracy that that optimism has gone and we've ended up with a dictator like Putin. 18 years in power I think.
I knew Russia's economy was weak and relatively small, they're getting left behind in the economic boom of Brazil, China, Indonesia etc and becoming less relevant in the world. Seems a lot of Putins's posturing is just that.... posturing, trying to act great but are Russians really loyal to him. Apparently he cannot retire or stand down as he has so many enemies he'd be dead in a week.
Sad a once great country like Russia is reduced to the pathetic power games of a bored leader. Nerve gassing an old man and his daughter in a foreign country just to get a reaction. Time Putin's reign was ended.
Hard to believe when the USSR broke up and Gorbachev was making a lot of progress bringing Russia toward democracy that that optimism has gone and we've ended up with a dictator like Putin. 18 years in power I think.
I knew Russia's economy was weak and relatively small, they're getting left behind in the economic boom of Brazil, China, Indonesia etc and becoming less relevant in the world. Seems a lot of Putins's posturing is just that.... posturing, trying to act great but are Russians really loyal to him. Apparently he cannot retire or stand down as he has so many enemies he'd be dead in a week.
Sad a once great country like Russia is reduced to the pathetic power games of a bored leader. Nerve gassing an old man and his daughter in a foreign country just to get a reaction. Time Putin's reign was ended.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Now is the time for Political Unity on this matter. Corbyn is a nasty piece of work, he will say anything to promote his personal objectives.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Aside from a photo opportunity not sure why Ms May has taken herself to Salisbury...
Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.
She got slated for not going to Grenfell House.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Not sure if attending at Salisbury squares for her failure in not going to Grenfell...
Old Skier
Tour Winner
It has a nice cathedral.
Foxholer
Blackballed
So much for 'Political Unity' then!!
But I certainly agree with this!
Universal condemnation by Parliament is what's required imo. And, if worded properly, might commit Corbyn to some sort of 'stance' - though I'm pretty sure the 'spin doctors' could manufacture a sufficiently vague/generic response that condemns the action without condemning those obviously (to me) responsible!
The current response - expelling diplomats - is pretty much pointless and counter-productive imo, though it might be a method of getting rid (but with tit for tat consequences) of recognised 'case officers'!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
i think public opinion on what Corbyn said is split (and split in the Labour party also).
Where did Political Unity get us with Iraq and the dodgy dossier? And Blair is castigated endlessly for the approach he took.
I actually think what Corbyn said was actually OK (I just wish it wasn't Corbyn who was saying it). I might not have said or asked all he yesterday - but he is absolutely correct to ask the questions.
Yesterday in the Commons was not a moment of national mourning or of addressing a new crisis - a moment that required the country to pull together - it was a moment when the PM laid out her response to Russian's non-response to her challenge of the previous day and it is the responsibility of the Leader of the Opposition to ask the questions on such serious matters that many in the country are asking.
That is part of what democracy is all about - challenging the decision makers - not just going along with what a one party; one group - or indeed a coterie around the PM might think. (See also Brexit - Sovereign Parliamentary Democracy - Taking back control)
But I'll be honest - at first listening (live) I was not sure - but then that's probably as I really don't like or trust Corbyn
Last edited:
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Lets put Brexit to one side, if possible. When we face a situation of National threat then point scoring party politics is not appropriate. Holding the Government to account is a different issue and Blair's policy on Iraq was not a parallel. The USA, France and Germany can stand by us against Putin but Corbyn cant. He is a nasty piece of work.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Believe Trump and Macron asked same/similar questions before throwing their hat in the ring...
Similar threads
