The Wisdom of Lou....

[Orikoru]

This bit in bold made me chuckle, because it's so true

I would find it funny too, but my fourball/foursome partner is an absolute menace for this. He'll say something like "Ok so this needs to go in - no prizes for short" and then I swear runs it off the other side of the green. Whenever he has a 'free putt' for a half or hole win I have to have a serious talk with him about not leathering it.

 

[r0wly86]

For most handicap golfers avoiding 3 putts is going to better their scores more than holing 1/50 long putts

 

[bobmac]

Its the simplistic but tru element that no short putts go in, that misleads golfers on how best to putt.

It makes sense to try and lag the longer putts to avoid the 3 putt but at what point do you stop thinking 'just lag it' and start thinking 'let's try and hole it'.
There is no objective best way to putt.

 

[Imurg]

I suspect that as people join the thread and only read a few posts things can become confused. 18 inches past is said to be near the optimal for short to medium length putts as you get longer dead weight is a closer approximation to optimal.

A respected PGA/LPGA coach, Gareth Raflewski, reckons these numbers are more realistic
At dead weight the hoke is 4.25 inches wide
At a speed to go 1 foot past the size shrinks to 2.6
At a speed to go 2 feet past it's 1.9
At a speed to go 3 feet past it's the size of the ball...this is why you see putts, seemingly, going over the edge of the hole and not dropping

So at a speed to go 18" past you're having the size of the hole
So the optimal speed is between dead weight and about 6-9 inches...

 

[Backache]

For most handicap golfers avoiding 3 putts is going to better their scores more than holing 1/50 long putts

This is true for all golfers not just most handicap. The 2% make rate for PGA pros is about 55 Feet at which point their three putt percentage is just under 20%.

 

[bobmac]

A respected PGA/LPGA coach, Gareth Raflewski, reckons these numbers are more realistic
At dead weight the hoke is 4.25 inches wide
At a speed to go 1 foot past the size shrinks to 2.6
At a speed to go 2 feet past it's 1.9
At a speed to go 3 feet past it's the size of the ball...this is why you see putts, seemingly, going over the edge of the hole and not dropping

So at a speed to go 18" past you're having the size of the hole
So the optimal speed is between dead weight and about 6-9 inches...

But then a ball traveling that slowly at the hole will be affected more by the slope. Which is why some prefer straight and firm.
I've just looked at his website

 

[Backache]

A respected PGA/LPGA coach, Gareth Raflewski, reckons these numbers are more realistic
At dead weight the hoke is 4.25 inches wide
At a speed to go 1 foot past the size shrinks to 2.6
At a speed to go 2 feet past it's 1.9
At a speed to go 3 feet past it's the size of the ball...this is why you see putts, seemingly, going over the edge of the hole and not dropping

So at a speed to go 18" past you're having the size of the hole
So the optimal speed is between dead weight and about 6-9 inches...

Not certain about this logic . It discounts two things one the lower the speed the more likely green imperfections are to knock a ball off line. Secondly every putt will have a distance distribution and at shorter putts you really don't want to leave any short.

 

[BiMGuy]

It’s funny how something like the 18” thing is trusted like it’s a universal law of physics.

Was it considered nonsense at the time because it was a new theory?

 

[Slab]

Is there an accepted min/max length or agreed range, to describe what is a 'lag putt'

then we can stop talking about 10 or 15 footers etc if that distance is well below lag putt distance

 

[Imurg]

Is there an accepted min/max length or agreed range, to describe what is a 'lag putt'

then we can stop talking about 10 or 15 footers etc if that distance is well below lag putt distance

It might not be....
A 15 ft sloping , downhill left to righter that needs 2 feet of borrow...I'd be happy to lag that.

 

[Slab]

It might not be....
A 15 ft sloping , downhill left to righter that needs 2 feet of borrow...I'd be happy to lag that.

Yeah i can see that but are you really 'lagging' that one in the accepted use of the word?

A lag putt, on google anyway, is usually described as being of a long distance rather than a putt of difficulty

i.e a lag putt is of long distance which the player doesn’t expect to make, not a difficult short or medium length putt the player doesn’t expect to make

 

[BiMGuy]

Yeah i can see that but are you really 'lagging' that one in the accepted use of the word?

A lag putt, on google anyway, is usually described as being of a long distance rather than a putt of difficulty

i.e a lag putt is of long distance which the player doesn’t expect to make, not a difficult short or medium length putt the player doesn’t expect to make

I think it’s just managing expectations.

I see players getting mad because they think they are missing loads of putts. When in fact 2 putts is the more likely outcome. From 15’ 2 putts is a good result, yet people will get frustrated that they missed and think they have putted badly if they miss a few during a round.

Lots of players also don’t know how far and 8’ or 15’ actually is and massively underestimated how long a putt is.

 

[Backache]

Yeah i can see that but are you really 'lagging' that one in the accepted use of the word?

A lag putt, on google anyway, is usually described as being of a long distance rather than a putt of difficulty

i.e a lag putt is of long distance which the player doesn’t expect to make, not a difficult short or medium length putt the player doesn’t expect to make

I think its a little bit of psychology/ expectation rather than any clear division. Personally I am trying to make virtually every putt I hit, the difference between different putts is the speed at which I hope they will enter the hole, for long putts I want them to die into the hole, for shorter ones to roll into the hole.

 

[Slab]

I think it’s just managing expectations.

I see players getting mad because they think they are missing loads of putts. When in fact 2 putts is the more likely outcome. From 15’ 2 putts is a good result, yet people will get frustrated that they missed and think they have putted badly if they miss a few during a round.

Lots of players also don’t know how far and 8’ or 15’ actually is and massively underestimated how long a putt is.

Yeah expectations probably get polluted/inflated by the hope and desire to make a putt, and difficult short medium putts still have that 'hope/desire'

While very often a long (lag) putt isn't particularly difficult, it just has low probability & expectation

 

[Albo]

Talking for me personally, anything 20ft and out I’m trying not to 3 putt, not to say that I’m not trying to hole any putt of those lengths, but that the predominant desire is not to 3 putt

 

[Imurg]

Talking for me personally, anything 20ft and out I’m trying not to 3 putt, not to say that I’m not trying to hole any putt of those lengths, but that the predominant desire is not to 3 putt

Same
Although, if I'm honest, the distance is down to 12-15......Nice to make them but make sure it's lose if you don't.

 

[Backache]

Same
Although, if I'm honest, the distance is down to 12-15......Nice to make them but make sure it's lose if you don't.

I'm not disagreeing with the principle of the above but my psychology is more: aim small, miss small. So my aim is to hole it though I'm very happy with a small miss at those ranges. I think it's what works best for an individual though.

 

[Orikoru]

I'm not disagreeing with the principle of the above but my psychology is more: aim small, miss small. So my aim is to hole it though I'm very happy with a small miss at those ranges. I think it's what works best for an individual though.

Precisely, this is why the old 'dustbin lid' rhetoric is nonsense as well. Bigger target area, bigger margin of error. Keep the target small - i.e. the hole itself.

 

[Bdill93]

It makes sense to try and lag the longer putts to avoid the 3 putt but at what point do you stop thinking 'just lag it' and start thinking 'let's try and hole it'.
There is no objective best way to putt.

Simple answer - when I'm feeling it

Some days you just feel like you have the roll of the greens and you can drop anything, that's when I start to attack pins rather than playing it safe by lagging.

 

[Orikoru]

Simple answer - when I'm feeling it

Some days you just feel like you have the roll of the greens and you can drop anything, that's when I start to attack pins rather than playing it safe by lagging.

For me the 'this is makeable' area is quite small. Maybe anything under 6 feet.. and outside 3 feet.