spongebob59
Journeyman Pro
There's a bit of a Twitter storm going on Andrew Neil's feed
The SNIP
- Thread starter Colonel Bogey
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KenL
Tour Rookie
The "one chance" "once in a lifetime" were SNP quotes.
Current polls are paid for by independence supporting outfits like wings over Scotland at a prime time for stirring up support and sadly anti-English hatred.
I still believe that it would be another no vote if it happened, not that it should.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Using your logic the old polls that had the naesayers in a majority must have been wrong as well.
All polls are independent, the questions they ask can influence opinion.
No poll since March has supported staying in the UK, whoever they were commissioned by.
Do you still support your long held stance in support for the rights for the majority of Scots people.
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azazel
Assistant Pro
Even if Salmond, Sturgeon or whoever suggested such a thing, so what? People can change their minds and if a party stands for election with a referendum in their manifesto and wins that election then anything said or done years earlier is irrelevant. It's a really, really desperate excuse for not having another vote.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Boris found at last..........carry on camping in a three bed holiday cottage.
Military looking tent in garden for security men [probably]
Via Maley Dale so probably a pack of lies.
I do wish he would visit Scotland more often, especially with a microphone in his hands, the gift that keeps giving.
Military looking tent in garden for security men [probably]
Via Maley Dale so probably a pack of lies.
I do wish he would visit Scotland more often, especially with a microphone in his hands, the gift that keeps giving.
KenL
Tour Rookie
The continual unrest is not doing Scotland any favours.
Asking 1000 people (perhaps partially chosen to suit) is not the same as asking millions of people.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
It is the only 'positive' that the Scottish unionists can cling on to.
Absolutely no relevance to what is actually happening nowadays in Scotland.
If this is their first and main argument it smacks of desperation.
KenL
Tour Rookie
One opportunity!
Grant85
Head Pro
sorry Ken, didn't realise democracy died on 19th September 2014.
The SNP have gone to the polls now in 2016, 2017 and 2019 with a referendum mandate in their manifesto. Each time they have won those elections conclusively. The Scottish Parliament, elected in 2016, has a majority of pro-independence members. The Scottish MPs elected to the house of commons are almost all pro independence.
Ultimately if the action from Westminster is to continue to ignore and dismiss Scottish democracy, they are making the SNPs case for them and I think we will only see these poll numbers strengthen.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Boris found at last..........carry on camping in a three bed holiday cottage.
Military looking tent in garden for security men [probably]
Via Maley Dale so probably a pack of lies.
I do wish he would visit Scotland more often, especially with a microphone in his hands, the gift that keeps giving.
Military don’t protect politicians nirmally, why do you insist on making things up.
azazel
Assistant Pro
Avoiding the question isn’t even remotely the same as engaging in debate or attempting to win the argument, it’s just sticking your fingers in your ears and going “lalalalalalalala”.Boris found at last..........carry on camping in a three bed holiday cottage.
Military looking tent in garden for security men [probably]
Via Maley Dale so probably a pack of lies.
I do wish he would visit Scotland more often, especially with a microphone in his hands, the gift that keeps giving.
It can’t be denied that there’s a (growing) appetite for independence and ignoring that is going to do nothing to prevent it. Look at all the recent opinion polls - across a range of polling companies - and the trend is all one way.
KenL
Tour Rookie
Have you considered that some vote SNP to strengthen Scotlands position within the union rather than assuming they are a yes vote.
I really fear for the austerity Scotland would have to go through if independent. Scot gov own figures are not looking good for Scotland as an independent country.
Grant85
Head Pro
I believe the franchise from 2014 is appropriate. Basically all people over the age of 16 with a right to live and work in Scotland and who are current residents.
Opening it up to people who chose to move away or remain living outside of the country is not appropriate. The referendum impacts on them far less than people who live here. They will not be disadvantaged by any decision made in the referendum - they will certainly not lose any rights to live and work in Scotland post indy and almost certain that they could chose to retain a UK passport or have both a Scottish and UK passport.
If George Galloway is correct and there are nearly 800,000 Scots living in the rest of the UK, that is a huge number (potentially 20% to 25% of the electorate) and one that could be decisive in a referendum. What if the result for Scottish residents was decisive one way, but the rUK residents swung it a different way? That would mean you had a population of 5 million people who were not in favour of the referendum result.
The 2014 referendum was won by 384,000 votes.
And then you would also have election rules governing media and spending that would now apply to the whole of the UK.
Grant85
Head Pro
Currently independence now polling at a higher level than the SNP. That is a marked change from prior to 2014.
And whatever reasons people vote for the SNP, there is no doubting their policy of a referendum. They are not counting an SNP vote as a vote for independence and there is no chance of the SNP trying to declare independence without winning a referendum. They are very clear about their policy to have a further choice, which now looks like it is increasingly popular here.
Not denying there aren't challenges, but Scotland would start life in a far better position than almost any other country who has ever declared independence. The benefit of being able to manage our own finances, make our own trade agreements (or elect to join the EU), set interest rates, corporation tax, set immigration policy etc. can put Scotland on a far greater path and I genuinely believe that within 5 to 10 years the economic case will have been made to the point that no one even remembers the potential risks that were being talked about.
At the moment huge swathes of policy are being set in Westminster by people who are openly hostile to the Scottish position and what is best for Scotland. We are being taken out of the EU, despite voting overwhelmingly to remain. Interest rates are set in London, most of the personal taxation system is set in London as is the corporate taxation system. The welfare system is set in London. VAT set in London, import / export decisions made in London etc etc. And an immigration system is being set in London, that could & is devastating Scottish rural and tourism economies who rely heavily on overseas staff.
Do you think these people will make the best decisions for Scotland when negotiating trade agreements with USA, China, india, the EU etc? Scots Whisky association (who were pro Union) have already made the point they are being sold down the river in US trade talks. Even with the best will in the world, a UK government consisting entirely of English MPs will not give as much consideration to Scotland as our own government would and could.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Meanwhile - the chief negotiator for the EU that Scotland chose to remain in is today telling us that whilst there is progress in some technical areas - the likelihood of a trade deal looks unlikely. In fact things seem to be going backwards - well with Frost leading the way - eyes on a role in a future government and doing the bidding of Johnson and Cummings and beholden to the ERG-types - hardly surprising and not exactly what the Leave campaign sold the country - something that the majority of Scots didn't buy.
KenL
Tour Rookie
~60% of stuff made in Scotland is sold to rUK. How would Scotland fare if they left the UK without a deal?
Grant85
Head Pro
Are you really suggesting the rUK would not trade with iScotland?
What a lot of nonsense.
At the moment the UK are heading for not trading with anybody much, so iScotland getting into the EU would give us a far greater trading basis than we might or might not have, depending on how stubborn and ignorant our crack team of UK negotiators are.
And on the 60% figure... I'm not sure how reliable that is. How many lorries get counted at Gretna or Berwick? (that's zero btw).
How many lorries drive from Scotland to Hull or Felixstowe for onward travel either in the same cargo or via a distribution centre for an international destination? I'm sure sufficient numbers to significantly reduce the 60% figure.
So I'm personally sceptical of that 60% figure. Clearly still a significant trading partner, but probably not as significant and even less significant if we are putting barriers to EU trade as part of Brexit Britain.
KenL
Tour Rookie
Old Skier
Tour Winner
I suppose when the EU said they had no plans to expand and Spain being against Scotland joining even if there was an expansion is irrelevant.
Old news havnt heard any different from the EU.
D
Deleted member 1418
Guest
Scotland trade with rUK was more than 60% in 2018 apparently, according to Scottish Government own export figures published end January 2020.
I got that from GOV.UK. I would imagine they're available on Scottish Government website too.
I got that from GOV.UK. I would imagine they're available on Scottish Government website too.
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