The SNIP

[Captainron]

What you need to realise is that there is no desire for Scotland to be independent from the UK in the rest of the UK or indeed Europe. Scottish independence would give rise to more groups (Catalans in your example) pushing for independence and the EU would be splintered.
This may change in time but there is no chance of this in the near future.

 

[HankMarvin]

To those who do not support Independence please tell me, in your own words, what you would consider 'enough' for a mandate on Scottish Independence.

I see Lisa Nandy is suggesting that the UK should follow the Catalonian example against Nationalists. [I assume she also means Welsh and Irish]
So Lisa should we now expect police brutality against Independence supporters and the jailing of their leaders.
I know Labour have given up on gaining any support in Scotland but supporting Spain's right wing fascist views and actions is not what I would have expected from them.

If I remember in 2014 the SNP got a chance for what they called a once in a lifetime vote for independence and the result was not what they expected, now they claim they have a right for another vote. Sorry you had your chance and please respect the choice of the people and get on with the day job now.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The Lord Ashcroft poll in August had support for Scottish Independence at 47% whilst those against were 45%.
Narrow, but certainly spikes the 'no desire for Independence' guns.

 

[KenL]

At

Did you read what I posted...?

here's the last few words

'the SNP has a mandate from the people of Scotland - that it is the Will of the People of Scotland - to hold a referendum - even if all of that same SNP voting electorate might not want, and so won't actually vote for, independence.

Did I quote what you wrote?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

At

Did I quote what you wrote?

I simply have said that the SNP in government have a mandate from the Scottish Electorate to request the right to hold a referendum.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If I remember in 2014 the SNP got a chance for what they called a once in a lifetime vote for independence and the result was not what they expected, now they claim they have a right for another vote. Sorry you had your chance and please respect the choice of the people and get on with the day job now.

I think you have been listening too much to 'The Gover' - it's as if the Scottish First Minister requesting the right to hold a referendum puts Scottish Government on hold - which is rather weird as you can watch broadcasts from Holyrood with the parliament in session, and can watch the Scottish First Minister Questions - both of which don't seem to have stopped - and so fit the description of getting on with the day job.

As it happens what has put Scottish government on hold in many areas is the Tory Government in Westminster faffing around and not having a budget - now not until March. With no Westminster government budget the Scottish Government has a significantly less firm (I hesitate to say 'No' but that might be closer to the truth) basis upon which to make spending policy and plans.

 

[drdel]

The BBC on "Once in a Lifetime" !! - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51120175

I was amused by the various slants and spin being applied by the FM and her predecessor.

IMO independence for Scotland would be an economic mistake but what I find hard to understand is what they(SNP) expect the PM and UK government to do. There is a lot of debate whether Scotland should receive/deserves more investment, particularly on infrastructure. The pay back on such investments are measured in decades, IF there is a continual demand for a new referendum every 5/6 years until the SNP achieves (or seeks to maintain) its aim why would investors (UK Government or GOCO, COCO and PFI investors) bother while the uncertainty keeps cropping up?

 

[KenL]

The Lord Ashcroft poll in August had support for Scottish Independence at 47% whilst those against were 45%.
Narrow, but certainly spikes the 'no desire for Independence' guns.

A one-off and just a poll.

5, yes only 5, years ago a vote that counts was held and it was decisive.

This taking out of Europe stance is just an excuse to bang on about having another go at independence. Nobody actually believes the link to the EU is more beneficial to Scotland than the Union do they?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The BBC on "Once in a Lifetime" !! - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51120175

I was amused by the various slants and spin being applied by the FM and her predecessor.

IMO independence for Scotland would be an economic mistake but what I find hard to understand is what they(SNP) expect the PM and UK government to do. There is a lot of debate whether Scotland should receive/deserves more investment, particularly on infrastructure. The pay back on such investments are measured in decades, IF there is a continual demand for a new referendum every 5/6 years until the SNP achieves (or seeks to maintain) its aim why would investors (UK Government or GOCO, COCO and PFI investors) bother while the uncertainty keeps cropping up?

Yet you expect Scottish taxpayers to quietly pay up for UK infrastructures that benefit regions outwith of Scotland but are of absolutely no benefit to them. HS2 etc.
It is a two way thing you know.

Nobody coming up with any suggestions about what they would consider a mandate, just repeating the same old tired arguments.

 

[azazel]

A one-off and just a poll.

5, yes only 5, years ago a vote that counts was held and it was decisive.

This taking out of Europe stance is just an excuse to bang on about having another go at independence. Nobody actually believes the link to the EU is more beneficial to Scotland than the Union do they?

Aye but Boris is going to get a great trade deal with the EU, so when we're independent and back in the EU we'll have no issues trading with England so that's a non-starter.

If the Scottish people keep electing a majority of politicians to the Scottish parliament who support independence and/or a second referendum then it's illogical to suggest that people don't want another vote on it and shouldn't have it. The absolute nonsense about "less than 50% of people voted for the SNP so people don't want independence" needs to be binned as well, it's just an attempt to shut down the conversation.

If people in favour of the union really think that the majority are with them the why not support a referendum in return for the Scottish government agreeing to a minimum period before we can have another one? That way you'll win the referendum and the issue will go away for however many years. But neither Boris nor anyone else is really confident enough to do that, which says it all.

 

[BrianM]

A one-off and just a poll.

5, yes only 5, years ago a vote that counts was held and it was decisive.

This taking out of Europe stance is just an excuse to bang on about having another go at independence. Nobody actually believes the link to the EU is more beneficial to Scotland than the Union do they?

I don’t think people think that whatsoever, but leaving the EU ‘could’ be a massive mistake for Scotland and the UK, hence why in my opinion they are probably entitled to a second vote, I voted to stay in the UK and union but understand why people would want a vote if just to stay in the EU.
No one knows what the future holds, but maybe now is the time for Scotland to go it alone.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Yet you expect Scottish taxpayers to quietly pay up for UK infrastructures that benefit regions outwith of Scotland but are of absolutely no benefit to them. HS2 etc.
It is a two way thing you know.

Nobody coming up with any suggestions about what they would consider a mandate, just repeating the same old tired arguments.

it already is a two way thing, suggest you read here, from your own governments website :-

https://www.gov.scot/publications/infrastructure-investment-plan-2015-progress-report-2018-19/

https://www.gov.scot/policies/government-finance/infrastructure-investment/#plan

Infrastructure in Scotland is funded by user charges, regulatory regimes, private sector, UK Government and local authorities as well as central Scottish Government funds.

Quite interesting and shows lots of wogga and projects undergoing/being spent and only post this to show both sides evenly, rather than the one sided arguments you put forward. What would be interesting if you compare how much is spent on infrastructure per head in Scotland to the UK, failing that will google later, as interested to educate myself, as I certainly wouldn't wish to see any part of the country in the UK short changed as such.

Mandate, easy for me, wait until the EU deal is done and see how things unfold, say 5 years afterwards the deal and revote.

 

[Grant85]

I actually think the current Tory stance is absolutely mad.

I think as the months and years pass with this anti-democratic line, it is inevitable that support for independence will grow and when a 2nd vote does come it will be a much easier campaign for the Yes side and the No side arguments of 2014 will be much harder to make.

Ultimately the SNP are benefiting electorally from being pro-indy and I think they are only going to keep recording big victories which will keep this on the agenda and keep forcing the UK Gov to say no. Another vote would genuinely settle the issue and a second defeat would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the Yes movement. As happened in Quebec.

The political calculation the Tories are making is a very poor one imo and guaranteed to entrench the SNP in power as well as continue keeping indy on the political agenda.

But in reality, not sure what the SNP do from here. Obviously next years Scottish election will be a further test of opinion, and as things stand I think Yes parties will return a large majority with SNP and Greens making gains. Also don't believe we have had an Independence poll since prior to the GE and would not be surprised to see Yes building and holding a meaningful lead for the 1st time now.

Possibly a legal challenge is on the cards, but I would be amazed if that got very far. It is clear that the constitution is a reserved matter and barring the UK Gov making a total mess of their legal representation, a Scottish or UK court would be taking a big step to reverse that position.

 

[HankMarvin]

The longer the SNP bleat on for another independence vote the worse their already failing policies will continue to hurt the country and this will lead to a change on how people vote in the next few years. Time for the SNP to concentrate on running the country rather than dividing Scotland let alone the UK .

 

[Captainron]

The longer the SNP bleat on for another independence vote the worse their already failing policies will continue to hurt the country and this will lead to and change on how people vote in the next few years. Time for the SNP to concentrate on running the country rather than dividing Scotland let alone the UK .

But it is all they have to keep the voters hooked.

 

[toyboy54]

But it is all they have to keep the voters hooked.

I voted for MsKrankie but only because I would never vote for the CON mob and I'm just so disillusioned with Labour.
But she really needs to concentrate on schools,roads,job creation,the economy and more importantly THE COMPLETE SHAMBLES that is the N.H.S. up here.
(just watched yet another report on the news about the tragic death of an 11y.o.girl caused by the total incompetence/self preservation/denial of any wrongdoing(caused by reported faults in various depts. infrastructure of the Billion £ Superhospital farce in Glasgow) of the very highly paid management.
Absolutely shocking and hard to watch.....This is not the only case of patient death in this place due to all the flaws in design/equipment flaws/poor installation/standard of construction.
If my late old man had been the Clerk Of Works on this project,then it wouldn't have opened until every single aspect of the building was 110% super correct.
So who the hell signed it off as being fit for purpose??Was there some form of inducements(holidays/cars for the family/nice little cash advance to the pension fund)being offered?Because there are so many things coming out about this 'Superhospital' and these faults have been known for years-ever since it opened

This is just so indicatave of what is going wrong in this country(amongst many)under her watch.
SHE REALLY NEEDS TO GET A GRIP OF WHAT REALLY MATTERS TO US PLEBS and forget this Independence crap because she's proving to one and all that she couldn't run a piss up in a brewery!
Jimbo

 

[Slab]

I voted for MsKrankie but only because I would never vote for the CON mob and I'm just so disillusioned with Labour.
But she really needs to concentrate on schools,roads,job creation,the economy and more importantly THE COMPLETE SHAMBLES that is the N.H.S. up here.
(just watched yet another report on the news about the tragic death of an 11y.o.girl caused by the total incompetence/self preservation/denial of any wrongdoing(caused by reported faults in various depts. infrastructure of the Billion £ Superhospital farce in Glasgow) of the very highly paid management.
Absolutely shocking and hard to watch.....This is not the only case of patient death in this place due to all the flaws in design/equipment flaws/poor installation/standard of construction.
If my late old man had been the Clerk Of Works on this project,then it wouldn't have opened until every single aspect of the building was 110% super correct.
So who the hell signed it off as being fit for purpose??Was there some form of inducements(holidays/cars for the family/nice little cash advance to the pension fund)being offered?Because there are so many things coming out about this 'Superhospital' and these faults have been known for years-ever since it opened

This is just so indicatave of what is going wrong in this country(amongst many)under her watch.
SHE REALLY NEEDS TO GET A GRIP OF WHAT REALLY MATTERS TO US PLEBS and forget this Independence crap because she's proving to one and all that she couldn't run a piss up in a brewery!
Jimbo

i'm probably well out of touch here but outside of the (fully expected even predictable) request she made on/around Dec 13th for 2nd referendum immediately after the GE (which took the PM a month to answer) what discussion/initiatives has she actually initiated regarding independence in recent weeks/months?

Leaving aside whether its a good/bad job what is it she's done to make you think she isn't focused on managing the country and is instead plotting independence for 8 hours every day?

 

[KenL]

I voted for MsKrankie but only because I would never vote for the CON mob and I'm just so disillusioned with Labour.
But she really needs to concentrate on schools,roads,job creation,the economy and more importantly THE COMPLETE SHAMBLES that is the N.H.S. up here.
(just watched yet another report on the news about the tragic death of an 11y.o.girl caused by the total incompetence/self preservation/denial of any wrongdoing(caused by reported faults in various depts. infrastructure of the Billion £ Superhospital farce in Glasgow) of the very highly paid management.
Absolutely shocking and hard to watch.....This is not the only case of patient death in this place due to all the flaws in design/equipment flaws/poor installation/standard of construction.
If my late old man had been the Clerk Of Works on this project,then it wouldn't have opened until every single aspect of the building was 110% super correct.
So who the hell signed it off as being fit for purpose??Was there some form of inducements(holidays/cars for the family/nice little cash advance to the pension fund)being offered?Because there are so many things coming out about this 'Superhospital' and these faults have been known for years-ever since it opened

This is just so indicatave of what is going wrong in this country(amongst many)under her watch.
SHE REALLY NEEDS TO GET A GRIP OF WHAT REALLY MATTERS TO US PLEBS and forget this Independence crap because she's proving to one and all that she couldn't run a piss up in a brewery!
Jimbo

I agree with most of what you said but how you could vote for SNP in the recent election when you have a good understanding of their failing is beyond belief!

There is also another new childrens hospital that cant even be opened due to design faults in the ventilation.

Another beauty of theirs is the higher taxes charged for everyone earning just £26k.

 

[Hobbit]

I voted for MsKrankie but only because I would never vote for the CON mob and I'm just so disillusioned with Labour.
But she really needs to concentrate on schools,roads,job creation,the economy and more importantly THE COMPLETE SHAMBLES that is the N.H.S. up here.
(just watched yet another report on the news about the tragic death of an 11y.o.girl caused by the total incompetence/self preservation/denial of any wrongdoing(caused by reported faults in various depts. infrastructure of the Billion £ Superhospital farce in Glasgow) of the very highly paid management.
Absolutely shocking and hard to watch.....This is not the only case of patient death in this place due to all the flaws in design/equipment flaws/poor installation/standard of construction.
If my late old man had been the Clerk Of Works on this project,then it wouldn't have opened until every single aspect of the building was 110% super correct.
So who the hell signed it off as being fit for purpose??Was there some form of inducements(holidays/cars for the family/nice little cash advance to the pension fund)being offered?Because there are so many things coming out about this 'Superhospital' and these faults have been known for years-ever since it opened

This is just so indicatave of what is going wrong in this country(amongst many)under her watch.
SHE REALLY NEEDS TO GET A GRIP OF WHAT REALLY MATTERS TO US PLEBS and forget this Independence crap because she's proving to one and all that she couldn't run a piss up in a brewery!
Jimbo

I can understand why people vote SNP, ignoring the independence issue for a second. Their socialist policies are admirable. But are they affordable? No. And then you hear the ”yes but” denials. Utterly laughable. Wake up and smell the coffee.

The Scottish NHS; I worked with many Trusts from the mid 90’s. Scottish hospitals were a shining beacon back then. I would take policies and work practices back to England and say to various Trust, “have you thought about,” or “have you spoken to...” In the last 5 years... oh please, wake up and smell the coffee. And again you hear the “yes but” denials.

Great social policies, but badly managed fiscally and operationally. Would the other parties be better? Who knows but a protest vote against the SNP might shake them up a bit.