The SNIP

[drdel]

It was not Ian Blackford who was speaking.
Are you trying to make up excuses for denying free speech by Tory Party 'mob ' rule in Parliament.?

The most amusing bit about this story is that Mr O'Hara was attempting to point out that Thatcher and Major [and even Tebbit] declared that a simple majority in Scotlsnd or the Scots Parliament would be enough to trigger a referendum.
Also worth remembering that Cameron had promised that we would not leave the EU without the consent of NI, Wales and Scotland.

IMO there's no excuse for bad manners by anyone, I was simply making the more general comment on the nature of the debates and IMO, Blackmore's 'tantrum' style. Repeating...
Scotland did gain the option of a referendum 2014.
Whole of UK participated on 2016.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Scots Labour Party look towards Scottish Independence through federalism and breaking away from UK Labour Party.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...pendence-referendum-indyref2?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[IanM]

Every time I see this thread title I think it is someone asking about having a vasectomy!

 

[ColchesterFC]

Scots Labour Party look towards Scottish Independence through federalism and breaking away from UK Labour Party.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...pendence-referendum-indyref2?CMP=share_btn_tw

What would a "pro-federal" option be? Would that be something that the rest of the UK would have to have a referendum on to agree or reject?

 

[drdel]

What would a "pro-federal" option be? Would that be something that the rest of the UK would have to have a referendum on to agree or reject?

Please nooo! - not another 'advisory', 'non-binding', 'we'll honour the result' or perhaps 'we need a confirmatory vote' farce with more buses and AN interviews: I'll need to restock the booze cupboard

 

[KenL]

Scots Labour Party look towards Scottish Independence through federalism and breaking away from UK Labour Party.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...pendence-referendum-indyref2?CMP=share_btn_tw

Desperation!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Please nooo! - not another 'advisory', 'non-binding', 'we'll honour the result' or perhaps 'we need a confirmatory vote' farce with more buses and AN interviews: I'll need to restock the booze cupboard

Speaking of honouring stuff, why have you not mentioned of The Vow to Scotland that was signed by the Tory/Labour and Lib Dem leaders when they thought they were going to lose the 2014 referendum.
Some very one sided honouring happening on your side of the fence eh.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Scots Labour Party look towards Scottish Independence through federalism and breaking away from UK Labour Party.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...pendence-referendum-indyref2?CMP=share_btn_tw

I think it was an attempt at sarcastic humour by the OP

 

[drdel]

Speaking of honouring stuff, why have you not mentioned of The Vow to Scotland that was signed by the Tory/Labour and Lib Dem leaders when they thought they were going to lose the 2014 referendum.
Some very one sided honouring happening on your side of the fence eh.

I see that complaints about the 'external' earning of Mr Blackmore have resurfaced which he's refused to stop as an SNP. The 'honourable' gentleman obviously does not feel the '95 "Nolan Principles" of honour in public life apply to him but only to Westminster.

 

[KenL]

Speaking of honouring stuff, why have you not mentioned of The Vow to Scotland that was signed by the Tory/Labour and Lib Dem leaders when they thought they were going to lose the 2014 referendum.
Some very one sided honouring happening on your side of the fence eh.

Aye, Scotland gets a raw deal - not!
I'm Scottish and totally fekking sick of tiny minded separatists and their poor me attitude.
If independence happens those people will soon know what poor is.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

If we remain in the UK, the Conservative Party’s promise of an in/out referendum on EU membership raises the serious possibility that Scotland will be forced to leave the EU against the wishes of the people of Scotland.

The above is a quote from the Scottish paper over the 2014 independence referendum UNDER chapter 1 of 'The case for Independence'.

Less up not forgot what was said by both sides evenly, and therefore to say the EU vote is a change in circumstances as some would post on here, is not quite true, as it was given in one of the reasons to vote leave and it was taken into account for in the independence vote.

I have attached the paper it is from and the link:-

https://www2.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf

thought I would upload, as find it an interesting point, that I was not aware of before.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not quite getting why you think that there has not been a change in circumstances - what the Yes campaign feared and warned of, has come to pass.

It seems to be stretching things a bit to suggest that the vote against leaving the Union is evidence that the the same majority would be happy for Scotland to be leaving the EU against the wishes of the Scottish electorate - when the No Campaign was telling the electorate that saying No was the best way to ensure that Scotland remained in the EU - and that what Yes campaign was saying about Scotland leaving the EU if we voted No was all Project Fear (which is after all where the Brexit Project Fear came from) and not to be believed. You are suggesting that voters voted No believing the warnings of the Yes campaign and rejecting those of the No campaign.

This is the same logic that has seen Leave supporters quoting the warnings of Remain that Leaving would mean leaving the SM and CU, when at the time Leave was saying that that was all Project Fear and not to be believed. So voters voted Leave believing the warnings of the Remain campaign and rejecting those of the Leave campaign.

Well you can try that.

 

[Captainron]

So now that Boris has told her that a second referendum won't be sanctioned by Westminster, how does that effect things in the short term?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So now that Boris has told her that a second referendum won't be sanctioned by Westminster, how does that effect things in the short term?

Boris can stop talking about the Will of the People being paramount to everything. The People of Scotland, by continually electing the SNP when the SNP have clearly got independence and a referendum vote up front in their offering, suggests that, as a minimum, the SNP has a mandate from the people of Scotland - that it is the Will of the People of Scotland - to hold a referendum - even if all of that same SNP voting electorate might not want, and so won't actually vote for, independence.

 

[KenL]

SNP did not get more than 50% of the votes in any recent election.
Therefore most of the people in Scotland do not support independence.
There is NO mandate. Move on.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

SNP did not get more than 50% of the votes in any recent election.
Therefore most of the people in Scotland do not support independence.
There is NO mandate. Move on.

Did you read what I posted...?

here's the last few words

'the SNP has a mandate from the people of Scotland - that it is the Will of the People of Scotland - to hold a referendum - even if all of that same SNP voting electorate might not want, and so won't actually vote for, independence.

 

[Slab]

So now that Boris has told her that a second referendum won't be sanctioned by Westminster, how does that effect things in the short term?

The PM can now fully expect that if he doesn't cut the brexit cake fairly then this refusal will be brought back out at every meeting

that is the only short term change

 

[Dando]

So now that Boris has told her that a second referendum won't be sanctioned by Westminster, how does that effect things in the short term?

it won't stop her whinging and whining that Boris is stopping democracy

 

[Wolf]

it won't stop her whinging and whining that Boris is stopping democracy

Just like it won't stop certain posters on herr complaining England have no right and England have it in for them regardless of facts.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

To those who do not support Independence please tell me, in your own words, what you would consider 'enough' for a mandate on Scottish Independence.

I see Lisa Nandy is suggesting that the UK should follow the Catalonian example against Nationalists. [I assume she also means Welsh and Irish]
So Lisa should we now expect police brutality against Independence supporters and the jailing of their leaders.
I know Labour have given up on gaining any support in Scotland but supporting Spain's right wing fascist views and actions is not what I would have expected from them.