The SNIP

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But 55% of people DIDN’T vote for the SNP. So my point is valid.?

Btw...The SNP vote is exactly the same share wise as the 2014 independence referendum. So their claim to have a mandate for indyref2 is also bullshit.

In much the same way then you could describe Johnson's mandate for implementing the Tory manifesto from the last GE (sorry - the unelected Wormtongue Cummings manifesto - with thanks to JRR Tolkein for the perfect characterisation)

 

[drdel]

The old chestnut about the rights and voting entitlement of expats keeps coming up in the Brexit and Scottish Independence discussions.

IMO, which may be unpopular, is that if you decided to move to another country - do so! I believe the phrases are " When in Rome do as the Romans" or "Once you've made your bed lie in it"

If you decided that, on balance, you no longer enjoy being a UK citizen / resident in the UK and opted for a better life in another nation that decision carves out your future. I do not think you should then expect to vote and dictate the how those remaining in the UK should behave/vote etc. Ex-pats should get involved and fully contribute to the country they have decided to make home.

Pensions paid and built up in the UK should obviously still be honoured but whether the taxes paid by the improving wealth generated by future generations entitles expats to get similar rises and benefits while resident overseas is a more debatable question.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There was a request for name calling to end in December. 3rd day of the New Year and already it begins again ?. Come on, leave it out, raise the tone.

 

[SocketRocket]

There was a request for name calling to end in December. 3rd day of the New Year and already it begins again ?. Come on, leave it out, raise the tone.

I thought it was fairly innocuous so far ?

 

[Wolf]

In much the same way then you could describe Johnson's mandate for implementing the Tory manifesto from the last GE (sorry - the unelected Wormtongue Cummings manifesto - with thanks to JRR Tolkein for the perfect characterisation)

Why do you always feel the need to name call politicians that don't suit your ideals. As a man of faith aren't you supposed to be above all that.

It adds nothing to the debate and detracts from moments when you do post valid points.

As for your idea on ex pats being used to sway votes, imo a terrible idea and puts the outcome for the majority in the hands of a minority who moved away and will have no further input into the economic situation as they aren't living there and part of what maybe to come for all those still living there.

 

[drdel]

In much the same way then you could describe Johnson's mandate for implementing the Tory manifesto from the last GE (sorry - the unelected Wormtongue Cummings manifesto - with thanks to JRR Tolkein for the perfect characterisation)

The maxim for Christianity, I thought, was that you treat others as you wish to be treated does that not include insults/name calling?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I thought it was fairly innocuous so far ?

Post 841, it's just petty.

 

[azazel]

Does every single voter agree with every single item on a manifesto? Do even the majority of voters agree with every single item on a manifesto? Did a majority of voters agree with the independence item on the manifesto? Was every Remain voter in Scotland an SNP voter?

Only a blind, stupid idiot would answer yes to any of the above.

The temperature is high at present, and I’d say now is the time for a vote. Go for it. But let’s not cloud that call with silly blanket statements like every SNP supporter wants independence.

I don’t think I said or even implied that every SNP voter wants independence as, likewise, there will even be Tory and labour voters who do want it. No-one, unless they’re a blind, stupid idiot, fails to realise that voting for the SNP - particularly in a Scottish election - comes with the possibility of independence or at the very least a second referendum, even if that isn’t the individual voters own preference. Being a minority government, it wasn’t just the SNP that voted for indyref2 in holyrood of course.

 

[azazel]

If the majority of Scots want a second referendum then that's fine but i don't believe that's the case, Its just the divisive SNP whipping up something thats not true and will be damaging to Scotland... In the great words of Public Enemy, "Don't Believe The Hype"
Relatives told me just how much their community was affected last time and they dread a repeat.

Enough Scots voted for parties in Holyrood in order for legislation to be passed backing indyref2. Anything else is just bluster, including nonsense about divided communities.

 

[Dando]

Post 841, it's just petty.

he just can't resist

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Good to see English people still know what’s best for the Scottish people.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

What flawed views?

You state "You have no idea how Scots would vote in a Referendum as opposed to a Westminster election. No one does."...well we can have a good guess can't we? Scotland voted NO in 2014, and there is no evidence that the SNP have increased there support. All the polls suggest that Scotland wants to remain part of the UK.

The labour vote has collapsed in Scotland. (I don't know why, I haven't read up on it) The SNP vote went up 8% this time while the Labour vote fell 8.5% so it looks like many voters that rejected Labour couldn't bring themselves to vote Con or LD so they switched to SNP. but total support was only 45% (same % as indyref1) so its hardly a ringing endorsement for another divisive Ref is it?

Using you logic, there was only one party solely against stopping Indyref2
They got about 22% of the votes so 78% of voters were pro independence.

 

[Fade and Die]

Using you logic, there was only one party solely against stopping Indyref2
They got about 22% of the votes so 78% of voters were pro independence.

No you are deliberately ignoring the uncomfortable point I’m making...remember it is Nicola who is trying to turn the GE into a proxy indyref. She claimed the result was a mandate for another independence referendum. I was just pointing out that’s nonsense.

 

[Slab]

No you are deliberately ignoring the uncomfortable point I’m making...remember it is Nicola who is trying to turn the GE into a proxy indyref. She claimed the result was a mandate for another independence referendum. I was just pointing out that’s nonsense.

You're overlooking the very obvious point that you're (very probably) mistaken in the first ministers primary intent when she asked for a 2nd referendum immediately after the general election

 

[Doon frae Troon]

No you are deliberately ignoring the uncomfortable point I’m making...remember it is Nicola who is trying to turn the GE into a proxy indyref. She claimed the result was a mandate for another independence referendum. I was just pointing out that’s nonsense.

Goodness me they have had FOUR mandates in a row now......……..how many do you think they need.
Scots Tories were the only ones spouting off about Indyref in the GE.
Lets face it, they had very little else to go on.
SNP focussed on Brexit and getting rid of the Tories, much to the disgust of some of their supporters.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The maxim for Christianity, I thought, was that you treat others as you wish to be treated does that not include insults/name calling?

Do you understand thne difference between name calling and characterisation - just go read LotR if you don't know who Wormtongue is - and I was referring to Cumming btw - and he no politician.

If you wish a Christian 'maxim' for this context, then it is that you fearlessly call out individuals for what they are. That does not stop you loving them, forgiving them and praying for them - these as you will know are some of the key 'maxims' of Christianity.

 

[Fade and Die]

You're overlooking the very obvious point that you're (very probably) mistaken in the first ministers primary intent when she asked for a 2nd referendum immediately after the general election

Well I’m guessing she thinks if she kicks up enough of a fuss about Brexit and indyref2 then the Westminster government will be naively provoked into – crime of all crimes – ‘talking Scotland down’. This, in turn, will drive up support for independence, so that the presently empty threats of indyref2 will begin to carry some weight.?
Or is it more cunning than that? ??

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The maxim for Christianity, I thought, was that you treat others as you wish to be treated does that not include insults/name calling?

EDIT - combined

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Help me understand.

Is the big objection to remaining with Brussels based largely on Muslim immigration? What are the other factors? We're so hopelessly screwed up over here that I don't have a chance to concentrate on your issues.

 

[USER1999]

Re Indy ref 2, to me, it is not the right time. Regardless of whether it is the right time for Scotland or not.

Why? Because I would rather our politicians, civil service, negotiating teams were concentrating on Brexit, getting the best divorce, the best trade deals, etc. These negotiations will be on going for ages, and will require 100% effort. There is simply not the slack required to campaign during indy ref 2, and not the capacity to even think about how a break up would work.

It is easy to say that the details can be banged out later, but given the mess that is Brexit, this is plainly not true. People need to know exactly what they are voting for, or there will be calls for a 3rd vote.

I am not sure when the right time will be though!