The problem with golf ....

[Deleted member 15344]

I will add the controversial comment

One big reason "could be" - the lack of golf on terrestrial telly

Right now every single golf event is on a Sky that is viewed by the minority - the only people imo watching golf on Sky are golfers - Sky may produce the program's better with the extended budget but the only people that will pay to watch golf will be golfers - if you aren't a golf fan you won't pay money to watch it. So how will the young child etc who doesn't know much about golf get to watch it to see if he likes what he sees ? If the sport isn't going to the wide audience then imo it's going to be hard for people to grab an interest in it - I reckon if you look at participation numbers on a number of sports that moved to Sky over the year you could see a decrease in people participating? Where as a number of Olympic Sports have seen an increase in people participating- Hockey , Cycling , Gymnastics

**Disclaimer - i have no figures to back it up - it's just a theory that could be wildly wrong**

 

[Imurg]

Golf takes time
Golf is hard
Those are the facts of the modern game
Shortening courses or making them easier could attract more people into the game butnwill, at the same time, alienate many established players so numbers are unlikely to change much.
What is required is more 9 hole courses in addition to the established 18 holers..
That will satisfy the established golfer and the new arrivals.
At Aylesbury Park, they used to have an open-air practice ground/range.
If you saw 10 people on it a week it was a good week!
They dug it up and designed a short par 3 course - and I mean short!
Shortest hole is 54 yards, the longest 95.
In the first 3 years they made more money from the par 3 course than they did from pay and players on the main course...
Unfortunately, HS2 has resulted, over the last 3-4 years, in a decline in the upkeep of both courses, the 9 holer suffering more due to the need to keep the main course as good as possible for the members.
But in its day, the short course was as busy as the main course. Societies used to play the short course, have lunch and then play the main course - a bit of fun before the main event.
Wycombe Heights has a very decent par 3 course and many older members play that in preference to the, admittedly, very hilly main course.
Build more 9 holers
Do deals with schools to get the kids in
Relax dress codes a little. Let people wear golf kit if they want but don't enforce it if they don't.
Let people have fun without strict rules.
Once they have caught the bug, get them coaching and onto the main course.

Leave current golf as it is - there are plenty who play and don't want or feel the need to change.
Bring in the lower level of play for those wanting a quick fix - even build more target ranges like TopGolf - make it fun and some will graduate to the real thing.

 

[Old Skier]

EG and the Devon Union are our biggest obstacle when it comes to promoting golf in our area as they refuse to support clubs without club pros with any funding. We used to hold 3 open days a year which produced results but with costs we are now having to reduce down to one.

We pay the same affiliation fees as other clubs but have little or no support from the games authorities.

 

[Crazyface]

compare golf with Footy, lets say a decent championship team like Leeds
Season tickets average at just under £500 which isnt too different to my current 5 day membership
or you can buy tickets for the match V Derby for between £25-38 which is a decent green fee
Ok you dont need any kit to watch footy, but you will buy a scarf and a shirt, and for the kid as well

You will also buy a pie or a Bovril at HT

as for time, you need to be there at least 30 mins before kick off and you have to travel to the ground, plus
transport/parking costs and it will take you 20 minutes plus to get out at the end, even for a home game you are going to be out of the house for at least 3 possibly 4 hours if you have a jar afterwards.


So to summarise, there isnt that much to choose between Golf and watching footy in terms of cost and time spent away from ones humble abode

You are correct, but....footie is crazy popular due to it being promoted on TV. Golf isn't because it isn't getting the TV ads to back it, because , lets face it, it's not as exciting as footie. No one is going to run ads showing the camaraderie that golfers have. The hiss taking. The laughter as you watch another ball sail off to lord knows where etc etc

 

[Crazyface]

"Build more 9 holers"

They are everywhere. There are two 9 holers on every course.

 

[Capella]

The fact that it is hard and that it takes so much time and effort to learn is what sets golf apart from other games/sports. It probably means that golf is never going to be a sport for everyone or for the mass market. But does that mean that it has to change? I don't think so.

It would be very hard for me to take up figure skating, for example. For one thing the next ice rink is some ways away and secondly I am about as elegant as a drunk elephant when you put me on skates. So it definitely is not a sport that I would take up. Does that mean that figure skating has to change, so that more hopeless people like me can have a go at it and companies like Nike or Adidas or Puma can sell more skates?

I understand that an industry has to grow to be sustainable, but I don't like to see golf as an industry. I like to see golf as a game and a sport. That's what was there first. If people want to make money off golf, they have to adapt to the game as it is. The industry has to bend to accomodate the game, not the other way round. If it can't do that and still make a profit, then maybe it has outlived itself and has to go back to being a niche market instead of an industry again.

That said, there might be a place for new, faster, easier games which are inspired by golf. Stuff like TopGolf can be great fun for a night out with friends. I wouldn't mind more of that. But as an addition to golf as it is, not as a replacement, please.

 

[guest100718]

Its slow( often to slow), run by old blokes in blazers for old blokes in blazers, stupid dress code rules. Has a poor image among non golfers, time consuming, exspensive, takes a fair bit of commitment to get even half decent, daft car parks, reccomended then 2nd'd then interviews! Stuck in the past.

 

[Slab]

Been wondering what to contribute to this thread basically prompted because some manufactures are struggling to make as much money as they wanted to out of us & does that mean golf has a problem, but just because one commenter mentioned it I don’t think the difficulty of golf as a game or the duration it takes to play a round are the reasons Nike is stopping making gear

Using the earlier example so what if some companies go the way of the Dodo
(& by the way the Dodo has never been more commercially successful since its extinction & it’s name is known worldwide! )

So is it a better question to ask, Do Nike have a problem? (insert any other struggling manufactures name)

Golf (as a business or a sport) isn’t perfect and many clubs/courses have their issues that’ll impact and influence their membership and revenue... but having one or two less £400 drivers on the shelf in the pro-shop is not one of them

 

[Old Skier]

Its slow( often to slow), run by old blokes in blazers for old blokes in blazers, stupid dress code rules. Has a poor image among non golfers, time consuming, exspensive, takes a fair bit of commitment to get even half decent, daft car parks, reccomended then 2nd'd then interviews! Stuck in the past.

Unfortunately, the new blokes in jeans only want to play and many refuse to take part in any of the running of a club. Perhaps one of the problems is that to many just want to moan about it and use any excuse not to get involved. Its a bit like football, you cannot have a game without officials no matter how poor the officials are.

Id give up my post tomorrow if someone younger wanted to have it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Participation in sport is dwindling as a whole including grass roots football, rugby and cricket. Certainly in the case of football, it isn't a case of it not being available on main stream telly so I think the whole golf not being shown is not a contributory factor. Like it or not, golf is a niche sport. It always has been, way back in the days, perhaps not so far back in time, when clubs had waiting lists, most still needed you to be proposed and seconded and there was a joining fee. It still is a niche sport, despite the increased media profile the likes of Woods, Spieth, McIlroy and the Ryder Cup has given it in the last few years.

Golf could help itself, and many clubs are still potentially shooting themselves in the foot regarding access to play for visitors, the cost of green fees, even utilising teetimes or other online booking schemes and at times the welcomes afforded. Members aren't always treated much better and there has to be a shift towards a more open and welcoming atmosphere in a lot of clubs, particularly in terms of dress codes, to allow people (many of whom may be non-golfers) to still use the clubhouse for a driink/food while waiting for spouses, children etc.

If golf is in decline, is that actually necessarily a bad thing? What about the Darwinian survival of the fittest and perhaps those, not well managed, not prepared to changed and those not really bothered (definitely know a couple of them that seem to let the world pass them by - and not just the really famous names) will close and disappear. Is that actually as bad as it sounds? There are plenty of golf courses to go round in most areas and so by reducing the number of courses, and those that survive being more proactive in recruiting (and retaining) new members then surely, memberships will rise and those clubs will begin to thrive.

I am a firm advocate of pay and play. This is essential for the nomad and those wanting to try the game without forking out huge amounts on green fees at private clubs. However, with some of these being council run (Downshire in Bracknell may be going out to third party ownership in 2018) and with leisure budgets being trimmed, can these exist in their current format? Even those owned by the likes of Crown Golf etc are in danger (Blue Mountain proving that nothing is certain) if they cannot turn a profit and so are still reliant on regular traffic. Some of these do have clubs attached and so membership would be available for a fraction (usually) of the cost of a private club, with discounted green fees then due. Some clubs seem to be getting it and offering a range of flexible memberships, which potential members can buy into based on their planned level of use. I know several that offer a bronze, silver and gold schemes where the bronze offers the cheapest joining fees, but the lowest number of tokens to redeem against green fees, going up to a more expensive gold version. Membership is far more transient than it use it be and it has to be an area clubs are more pro-active in recognising.

Manufacturers have a part to play too. There has to be access to cheap, but not inferior, gear and brands like Benross and MD golf have led the way, but it's time the big names look at this too. It may be a simplistic approach, but surely there will be bigger demand, for low cost high unit sold gear, than a driver costing £500. Yes there are bargains to be had by shopping around, but as a newbie, who has the knowledge of what they need or what suits, where these first level sets would be far more appealing and prevent expensive mistakes that would do little for the confidence of a new golfer and fuel their desire to persevere at an already difficult past time

Perhaps I'm in a minority here but I don't think we're anywhere near pushing the panic button. Numbers may be dwindling, but I'd be interested to find out where we are in terms of active golfers (members of clubs and nomads) from say 1983 when I started playing and now? Has it really changed that much and are we still perhaps "blinkered" by the boom of the late 90's and early 00's. Golf in 1983 seemed to be doing ok and I think it's doing ok in 2017 providing it takes itself for what it is and not what it thinks it should be

 

[Sweep]

Its slow( often to slow), run by old blokes in blazers for old blokes in blazers, stupid dress code rules. Has a poor image among non golfers, time consuming, exspensive, takes a fair bit of commitment to get even half decent, daft car parks, reccomended then 2nd'd then interviews! Stuck in the past.

I agree the game is run by old blokes in blazers. It's a criticism we hear a lot. However they don't run it for old blokes in blazers. They run the game in its entirety from the R&A to club level for everyone to play. If younger people have a problem with that, then they need to step forward, but as the old blokes are most often volunteers this isn't likely to happen anytime soon. It isn't a crime to volunteer and it isn't a crime to be old or indeed wear a blazer - or are you suggesting some kind of dress code? 😀
The alternative is that the clubs start paying people to fulfil roles currently run by volunteers. That will mean clubs lose their culture as members running the club for members and it becoming a less of a club and more of a service providing facility which will add massively to the cost.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The game is too hard to master, too expensive for the middle class and takes too long to play for working people..

Is this true ?
Is it time for a major change in the way we play the game ( less clubs - cheaper) or less holes - quicker rounds ? Discuss

Really don't agree with the quote above. People have been playing golf for hundreds of years and the equipment now is so much easier to use than even just a few years ago. Golf doesn't need to be (and isn't) expensive in relative terms. People choose to smoke/drink etc and find the money for that so if they want to play golf as well I'm sure they will find the funds. As for time, again it is a lifestyle choice as to how people choose to spend their time. If they prefer to spend it with the family that's fine, their choice but I don't want my weekend curtailed to 9 holes because a minority of people don't have the time for 18.

 

[Qwerty]

I don't see a problem with accessibility, Golf is out there for anyone that wants to play it, Most towns have a muni,Driving ranges etc.
A problem a do see is that society has changed in that a lot of people want everything on a plate/instant etc.
Golf isn't like that, from the outset it takes a little time and commitment. I can imagine its viewed as just too much effort for most.

 

[badgermat]

I don't want my weekend curtailed to 9 holes because a minority of people don't have the time for 18.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the traditional 18 hole game should be changed, just that if we want to attract more players perhaps we should be thinking about more appealing "gateway" variants.

If more clubs added par 3 courses, for example, they might start encouraging beginners instead of intimidating them out of the game.

bm

 

[guest100718]

I played in a charity golf day a while back and one of our group was asked to leave the course as he wasnt wearing the correct socks! I have heard members bark at younger guys for their shirts being untucked. I got moaned at for wearing my cap in the bar.
Such petty stuff but it does little to dispel the stuffy image that golf has.

Or Perhaps golf has had its hayday and the delcine is inexorable

 

[Sweep]

The fact that it is hard and that it takes so much time and effort to learn is what sets golf apart from other games/sports. It probably means that golf is never going to be a sport for everyone or for the mass market. But does that mean that it has to change? I don't think so.

It would be very hard for me to take up figure skating, for example. For one thing the next ice rink is some ways away and secondly I am about as elegant as a drunk elephant when you put me on skates. So it definitely is not a sport that I would take up. Does that mean that figure skating has to change, so that more hopeless people like me can have a go at it and companies like Nike or Adidas or Puma can sell more skates?

I understand that an industry has to grow to be sustainable, but I don't like to see golf as an industry. I like to see golf as a game and a sport. That's what was there first. If people want to make money off golf, they have to adapt to the game as it is. The industry has to bend to accomodate the game, not the other way round. If it can't do that and still make a profit, then maybe it has outlived itself and has to go back to being a niche market instead of an industry again.

That said, there might be a place for new, faster, easier games which are inspired by golf. Stuff like TopGolf can be great fun for a night out with friends. I wouldn't mind more of that. But as an addition to golf as it is, not as a replacement, please.

Great post. I agree with all of this, except the part about TopGolf, which is the industry trying to change the game to suit the industry's needs.

 

[Snelly]

I got moaned at for wearing my cap in the bar.

Quite right too. Gentlemen do not wear hats indoors.

 

[Hobbit]

Golf in the UK has a number of factors leading to dwindling numbers. Poor image is often quoted but is it really a valid reason? The further north you go the less up itself it is as a past time. But even that is unfair. I'm on my 12th or 13th or 14th club across GB & Ireland. None of them have been particularly snobbish, although some have had antiquated rules. Is it cost? Tracking the trend from 2006 through the financial crash clearly suggests its a major factor. Is it time? Families probably do more together than ever before, which limits "me time" for prospective golfers.

Two things spring to mind. How welcoming a golf club is to a family out for a meal, or even just a bit of craic with Friends. I've been to a few rugby clubs at tea time on a Saturday, and they've been bouncing with families. Chicken nuggets and dino burgers flying out of the kitchen. The atmosphere was fantastic.

And the second thing is historical. What led to the massive surge in golf in the mid/late 80's? Courses being built, queues from 5 in the morning to book tee times. Something led to generating that level of interest. In my opinion it was the number of high profile golfers on the European Tour. Langer, Lyle, Faldo, Woosnam, Ballesteros. There wasn't the TV coverage back then apart from a few cameras at a few events and then the Open coverage. If the European Tour doesn't entice its best players to stay, and doesn't have high profile events in Europe, what will happen? Is taking an event to China or India actually beneficial to the Tour?

 

[guest100718]

Quite right too. Gentlemen do not wear hats indoors.

.... And this proves my point..... I had forgot I had it on and a simple request to remove it would have been fine. Instead a snotty blazer storming over and pointing out my error as if I have just commited some act of treason...

 

[Beezerk]

I've been to a few rugby clubs at tea time on a Saturday, and they've been bouncing with families. Chicken nuggets and dino burgers flying out of the kitchen. The atmosphere was fantastic.

Good point, I won't go into detail but my club is a joke when it comes to catering, plus they do very little to promote it. The events the committee arrange are all for the whitewash brigade and they wonder why bar takings are so dramatically down.

I also remember when I first joined this forum, I mentioned being surprised at how little clubs do to attract new members and even retain current ones. No incentives, no decent discounts or loyalty rewards etc. It seems they are a business run by people with no business experience, seemingly doing everything "on the hoof" for want of a better phrase.