The problem with golf ....

[Deleted member 21784]

I was a member of a club for 2 years, just about played enough to make it worth it (at £14 a round as a members guest , £16 otherwise) it took a lot of rounds to make it worth it!

I jacked it in because I found myself playing the same course every week , and my mates would want to play elsewhere which I didnt want to do because I had a membership to use

Now I just PAYG, ironically today I went back to my old club for the first time since may 2015

 

[351DRIVER]

Golf is not struggling to attract new players, the problem is that golfers from 1st time golfer to lifelong player are likely to play less and 1st time golfers are less likely now to become 2nd and 3rd time golfers..

The USA in 2015 had over 2.2 million NEW golfers play golf, if half of those were retained the USA would not have any form of golf crisis, I know talking to golf clubs that a big own goal that clubs consistently achieve is bringing new golfers on a massive discount, this leads to

1. They might play again but they expect discounts having paid 50% off they will not then pay full price
2. They only played because of the discount and will not return so hardly worth the effort in attracting them
3. They might play again but at the next place that offers a big discount

It is almost impossible to bring someone to a club at a huge discount then say next time you will be expected to pay double

There is the self fulfilling nature of the press too, everything you read is about golf in decline, struggling etc etc... a sport surrounded by constant negativity is hardly appealing..

Focus on the successes more than the failures and the game will be more appealing

 

[MikeH]

Mike

i would be interested if your information is based on decline in golf membership or if it includes "what appears to me" a growth in the amount of society golf that goes on.

If it's a decrease in membership and an increase in society golf, I put a lot of that down to clubs. Around here, a lot of the time, it is cheaper to book in as a society than it is to use a county card.

IMO no society green fee deal should better the cost of using a county card and should cost more.

hi OS
most data is centred around rounds played (a quarterly report that is a bit of an industry bible), active participants, club membership numbers
data is from governing bodies home unions, the leading research company - sports marketing surveys Inc, and commissioned studies by likes of Syngenta

i dont doubt that there have are a not insignificant number of club members who have given up membership to become nomadic golfers as it better fits their needs

interesting view on the county cards vs society rates

i think the use of county cards is nowhere near where it could be - i think far too few members even know about their existence

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Mike

i would be interested if your information is based on decline in golf membership or if it includes "what appears to me" a growth in the amount of society golf that goes on.

If it's a decrease in membership and an increase in society golf, I put a lot of that down to clubs. Around here, a lot of the time, it is cheaper to book in as a society than it is to use a county card.

IMO no society green fee deal should better the cost of using a county card and should cost more.

As someone who likes to use their County Card in principle I agree, the problem though is us County Card holders are already members elsewhere and when we visit we are unlikely to spend much in the shop or over the bar, Societies, they are hoping will make up the shortfall in green fees in spends in the shop and bar.
Personally as already said most sports are in decline as most of the world is still in recession, it's ok saying you can make it cheap if you want to, but modern society just aint like that, how many of us genuinely shop at Aldi and Lidl and avoid brands or drive the cheapest car that will do what we need, a few will no doubt, but the truth is, todays culture is to be seen to fit an image.

 

[Old Skier]

i think the use of county cards is nowhere near where it could be - i think far too few members even know about their existence

Devon club members get them free as part of their affiliation.

 

[MikeH]

Devon club members get them free as part of their affiliation.

but do you not still have to apply for them?
also is this a new thing - i was a member at RND, as my home club for a few year, and didn't ever see anything about county card
in Hampshire we have to apply and pay £15

 

[Deleted member 15344]

but do you not still have to apply for them?
also is this a new thing - i was a member at RND, as my home club for a few year, and didn't ever see anything about county card
in Hampshire we have to apply and pay £15

They are also free at our place - just pop into the office and they give you one , understand it was supposed to have at most counties but did hear a few weren't doing it

 

[Deleted member 16999]

but do you not still have to apply for them?
also is this a new thing - i was a member at RND, as my home club for a few year, and didn't ever see anything about county card
in Hampshire we have to apply and pay £15

Same here in Durham, £15 and you have to apply.

 

[Old Skier]

but do you not still have to apply for them?
also is this a new thing - i was a member at RND, as my home club for a few year, and didn't ever see anything about county card
in Hampshire we have to apply and pay £15

Started beginning of 2016 and you do have to apply but was well advertised by county and take up in our club was high. Added benefit was the card has your CDH No on it.

I think the decision was really based on "what does the average golfer get for their affiliate" argument. Perhaps the same argument should be directed at E.G.

 

[Blue in Munich]

but do you not still have to apply for them?
also is this a new thing - i was a member at RND, as my home club for a few year, and didn't ever see anything about county card
in Hampshire we have to apply and pay £15

Not at my place Mike, just pop into the pro shop & pick it up.

Interesting to see your comments that the game is in serious decline, yet at my club there is a not inconsequential joining fee and a waiting list which doesn't seem to equate. So what are we doing right, or what are the others doing wrong?

 

[MikeH]

Started beginning of 2016 and you do have to apply but was well advertised by county and take up in our club was high. Added benefit was the card has your CDH No on it.

free is great but even at £15 is a bargain - I just think theres a lot of club members who dont even know about them. no stats to back that up, just a hunch!

 

[Old Skier]

free is great but even at £15 is a bargain - I just think theres a lot of club members who dont even know about them. no stats to back that up, just a hunch!

Like I said earlier with there appearing to be little insentive to get them if you can book a society deal for less than the benefit of a county card.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not at my place Mike, just pop into the pro shop & pick it up.

Interesting to see your comments that the game is in serious decline, yet at my club there is a not inconsequential joining fee and a waiting list which doesn't seem to equate. So what are we doing right, or what are the others doing wrong?

Same at ours - in regards the county card and having a waiting list with a joining fee

We have also had 13 people put in membership forms in the last 10 days alone - we seem to be attracting new members including new to golf via an academy membership . Also our Society quota is already full for next year

 

[fundy]

devils advocate but why should county rate be lower than a society rate?

why should being a member at club A get you a cheaper greenfee at club B than someone who isnt a member elsewhere?

 

[Old Skier]

devils advocate but why should county rate be lower than a society rate?

why should being a member at club A get you a cheaper greenfee at club B than someone who isnt a member elsewhere?

Perhaps if the benefit from being a club member was better than being just a nomad society member more might decide to join clubs.

Just a thought, no more.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Along with the practical considerations mentioned, golf still has a serious image problem. The non-golfing public generally view it as a sport for sexist old fuddy-duddys and that puts many people off.

Clubs need to drag themselves into the 21st century, do away with anachronistic rules and practices and become more attractive places for younger adults and families to spend their precious free time.

 

[GeeJay]

We would all like golf to be cheaper, but I think that pay-and-play is actually killing golf as clubs race to the bottom of the pricing game. Without active members that pay full membership fees, clubs will fail and courses will close. Nett result being that the game of golf will most likely become less accessible and more expensive.

 

[GB72]

Having just given up my membership I can say that it was purely down to stuffy, outdated attitudes, clubs run by the over 60s for the over 60s extolling the worst of middle class pretentions. Love playing golf but felt totally out of place in the last 2 clubs I was a member of and became an involuntary car park golfer. The club loses a scary percentage of new members under 50 but the older ones who run it seem to not care.

Not sure what I am going to do now, one club nearby may suit me better, another is nearer but is a resort course but can get membership and gym use for about what I pay now. Other option is to join the local 9 hole course and play other courses at cheap rates. Not sure what I am going to do but I am going to take my time before deciding what is next.

 

[backwoodsman]

Ok, as MikeH asked the question, I'll bite...

What does it matter if participation in golf declines? If it is declining, does it matter what the reason is? Why do we need to keep numbers up? Why is it so imperative to get kids & young families involved? There will always be some people wanting to play, and whilst there are people wanting to play, there will be courses for them to play on. Perhaps not as many as now, but enough. Supply & demand and all that. Some clubs will go to the wall but surely you you only need enough clubs for the golfers there are ?

The regular mantra on here is "it's only a past-time or hobby" - so what does it matter if it goes the way of the dodo?

Ok, I know you can lob in the argument of jobs etc but in the end, if people aren't playing golf, they'll be doing something else - and whatever that something else is will need servicing.

Harsh? Perhaps. But if golf came to an end it would hardly be the end of civilisation as we know it. Ok, for some of us it would be, but you know what I mean. I want to play golf for the rest of my days but if no-one is playing in 50 years time, will it really matter?

 

[Sweep]

It seems to me there are two issues here. Club membership and participation in golf. The two are obviously linked but not inexorably. I am sure it's true that the more people that play the game, the more people join clubs. However this assumption may well be becoming out dated as more and more golfers become "nomads".
There are many reasons why individual golfers become nomads but the vast majority can be traced back to the fault of the golf industry itself. Clubs themselves are practically begging their members to become nomads by committing the cardinal sin of any industry. That of devaluing it's own product.
In 2012 a study compared golf availability in 1990 against the same in 2012. The study looked at the cost of a round without a member at members clubs in 1990 and in 2012 and the level of membership subscriptions at the same clubs in the same periods.
The study found that in 1990 the cost of a round without a member was around £20. The average membership subscription was £250. In 2012 the average cost of a round without a member was around £22 and the average subscription was around £900. So you can see that due to declining numbers, clubs have taken the bait of thinking that the course costs the same to run if golfers play the course or not, so we may as well let nomads play cheaply and take their money. They saw pay and play as extra revenue which became vital revenue. Members have been burdened with all increases in costs over a 22 year period and none of these increases have been imposed on those who cherry pick. The key finding of the study was that in 1990, if you wanted to play regular golf, you had to join a club. It wasn't financially viable to do otherwise. That is certainly not the case today. Golf is cheap and the clubs have made it falsely cheap for non members. How each of us see this will, I suspect, largely depend on whether we are ourselves members or nomads. Nevertheless, every single one of us has a vested interest in ensuring the clubs exist to play, either as a member or a nomad.

As for participation, the golf industry needs to stop hankering after the halcyon days of the golf boom of the mid eighties. It was a phenomenon that won't be repeated. We cannot go on continually comparing the state of the industry today to the very best of times. Times have changed. The traditional golf club is going and will be replaced through evolution with a more flexible membership, more relaxed, family oriented "experience". How each individual club handles (or otherwise) this evolution will be key to their well being. It's a big problem for them. They can't just throw out the baby with the bath water and say change all subscription categories in one go as they must ensure they continue to bring in their break even level of income. They can't offer flexible memberships that all their full members will want to convert to, in case it results in not meeting that income level. Neither can they for example just allow jeans in the lounge because it's likely the majority of today's members don't want that. But things will evolve and the clubs must manage this at the correct pace for their own clientele. It's not easy. And if this wasn't enough, this isn't even the club's biggest problem. Today's golden age of retirees (often the biggest age group of a club) aren't going to be around forever and those coming behind them aren't going to have the same amount of expendable income. Just imagine your club without the retirees and you might get a glimpse of the ticking time bomb affecting practically every golf club. This could lead us back to where we were in the 1950's where golf participation returns to being an elitist pastime. If that becomes the case, participation numbers almost become irrelevant.