The Next Labour leader

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Grant85 said:
I don't think it's going to be that difficult for front benchers to successfully separate themselves from Corbyn. Thornburry already saying she wanted Labour to be more pro-remain and didn't agree they should have gone for an election. I think people will 100% believe that and it will be Corbyn tainted with poor positioning and decision making.
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Labour being pro-remain would of been possibly more disastrous, surely backing their supporters who voted Leave would of made more sense, ie, back the will of the people and take the wind out of both the tory party and the brexit party sails.

They could of agreed with getting brexit done with a “better” deal than what boris got etc, played the card that all the current deals agreed so far had been done by tories and highlight their infighting etc.

Instead it was turned on Corbyn and his fence sitting.
 
pauldj42 said:
Labour being pro-remain would of been possibly more disastrous, surely backing their supporters who voted Leave would of made more sense, ie, back the will of the people and take the wind out of both the tory party and the brexit party sails.

They could of agreed with getting brexit done with a “better” deal than what boris got etc, played the card that all the current deals agreed so far had been done by tories and highlight their infighting etc.

Instead it was turned on Corbyn and his fence sitting.
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Not just backing their supporters who voted leave but also carrying through the promise they made after the referendum and when Article 50 was brought in. It is democracy and Jo Swinson has showed what happens when you try to go against that. I highlighted as soon as this policy was brought out that it was confused and would cost Labour badly. I got a couple of sneering posts back from people, not you, that the policy was clear as day but I 100% stand by my comments back then.

I agree with what you post, it would have taken away a key plank of which the Cons beat Labour with throughout the election.
 
pauldj42 said:
Labour being pro-remain would of been possibly more disastrous, surely backing their supporters who voted Leave would of made more sense, ie, back the will of the people and take the wind out of both the tory party and the brexit party sails.

They could of agreed with getting brexit done with a “better” deal than what boris got etc, played the card that all the current deals agreed so far had been done by tories and highlight their infighting etc.

Instead it was turned on Corbyn and his fence sitting.
Click to expand...
I think Labour need to take their time understanding what hits the electorate's sweet spots - good and bad.

I like Keir Starmer, but there is no point in putting him in charge now if his previous Brexit stance would simply continue to drive the wedge between Labour and the electorate. It might not. He might be able to strike a conciliatory tone and with humility admit that Labour had stopped listening, and that his view on Brexit was in conflict with much traditional Labour support - and that even although he is fearful for their future...there are things that he and Labour can do that do not depend upon the whims of the markets, and a quite uncertain picture of future trading relationships and outcomes.

[EDIT] If voters seem willing to put aside the Brexit stance of any Labour politician they rather like - now that Brexit is definitely going to be done - Starmer might be a good choice now. If they are not, then maybe he just isn't.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I think Labour need to take their time understanding what hits the electorate's sweet spots - good and bad.

I like Keir Starmer, but there is no point in putting him in charge now if his previous Brexit stance would simply continue to drive the wedge between Labour and the electorate. It might not. He might be able to strike a conciliatory tone and with humility admit that Labour had stopped listening, and that his view on Brexit was in conflict with much traditional Labour support - and that even although he is fearful for their future...there are things that he and Labour can do that do not depend upon the whims of the markets, and a quite uncertain picture of future trading relationships and outcomes.
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Most of the Shadow Cabinet need to go, all talk of Brexit, Remain or Leave needs to drop and move on, it’s happening.

The media will crawl over everything any future Leader has ever said, whoever that is needs to publicly state they got it wrong and it’s a fresh start.

They need to wise up and in the future go after boris, highlight everytime he changes his mind or changes a policy etc,
 
Grant85 said:
I don't think it's going to be that difficult for front benchers to successfully separate themselves from Corbyn. Thornburry already saying she wanted Labour to be more pro-remain and didn't agree they should have gone for an election. I think people will 100% believe that and it will be Corbyn tainted with poor positioning and
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Ok so Thornburry shows that she is a tactician and has hindsight. Some however, may think that she is there not so much for the wants of the Country( a GE giving the country the opportunity to show its wishes), or for the good of the Labour Party ( a GE giving it the chance to show its policies and get voted in power) , but more so her and fellow MPs can keep the status quo i.e their jobs, and the ability to keep faffing about in HoC , getting nowhere and doing nothing much in getting any action taken , save to frustrate the opposition ad infinitum.
At least Corbyn ( of whom I am not a fan) tried to get a Labour government.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Not just backing their supporters who voted leave but also carrying through the promise they made after the referendum and when Article 50 was brought in. It is democracy and Jo Swinson has showed what happens when you try to go against that. I highlighted as soon as this policy was brought out that it was confused and would cost Labour badly. I got a couple of sneering posts back from people, not you, that the policy was clear as day but I 100% stand by my comments back then.

I agree with what you post, it would have taken away a key plank of which the Cons beat Labour with throughout the election.
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Mate, I don’t agree with the Art 50 and Referendum promises to a point.

boris made a big play about the HoC’s dithering for 3 1/2yrs, they didn’t, it’s only 12 months since the rest of the HoC’s actually got a say on it, the previous 2 1/2yrs was all tory party, it’s that detail they should of concentrated on, mentioned this is the 4th tory deal etc, tories could of got brexit done 12 months previously....blah blah.

But sadly with the pathetic position they took they failed to get the higher ground.
 
pauldj42 said:
Most of the Shadow Cabinet need to go, all talk of Brexit, Remain or Leave needs to drop and move on, it’s happening.

The media will crawl over everything any future Leader has ever said, whoever that is needs to publicly state they got it wrong and it’s a fresh start.

They need to wise up and in the future go after boris, highlight everytime he changes his mind or changes a policy etc,
Click to expand...

...and so when I hear that Corbyn is going to lay down a 3-line whip on the WA - that all Labour MPs are to vote against it as a 'last stance' - I think - NO. It's done. Opposition to the WA is futile and counter-productive. Just get on with holding Johnson and the conservatives to account.

I'd also try and elicit (faint hope) some honesty around what leaving with No Deal will actually mean. Now that the fear some middle-ground Conservatives and commentators might have had about not leaving at all has gone, there is a small opening and time to build a picture...without being anti-Brexit - just concerned.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...and so when I hear that Corbyn is going to lay down a 3-line whip on the WA - that all Labour MPs are to vote against it as a 'last stance' - I think - NO. It's done. Opposition to the WA is futile and counter-productive. Just get on with holding Johnson and the conservatives to account.

I'd also try and elicit (faint hope) some honesty around what leaving with No Deal will actually mean. Now that the fear some middle-ground Conservatives and commentators might have had about not leaving at all has gone, there is a small opening and time to build a picture...without being anti-Brexit - just concerned.
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They have to vote against it, if it goes wrong they can stand there and say “we told you so” and to prevent the old “you agreed with it” that’s politics.

For the next 12-24 months Labour need to sort themselves out whilst being an annoying mozzie in the tory party ears, there’s little else they can do.
 
pauldj42 said:
Mate, I don’t agree with the Art 50 and Referendum promises to a point.

boris made a big play about the HoC’s dithering for 3 1/2yrs, they didn’t, it’s only 12 months since the rest of the HoC’s actually got a say on it, the previous 2 1/2yrs was all tory party, it’s that detail they should of concentrated on, mentioned this is the 4th tory deal etc, tories could of got brexit done 12 months previously....blah blah.

But sadly with the pathetic position they took they failed to get the higher ground.
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The problem is they ended up just being seen as a party who wanted to block Brexit. Whether accurate or not that is the perception they gave. They became so wrapped up in hammering the govt they lost the bigger picture, ignored what many Labour voters wanted. That was a mistake.
 
pauldj42 said:
They have to vote against it, if it goes wrong they can stand there and say “we told you so” and to prevent the old “you agreed with it” that’s politics.

For the next 12-24 months Labour need to sort themselves out whilst being an annoying mozzie in the tory party ears, there’s little else they can do.
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They can abstain...surely that sends the message that they do not oppose the WA as withdrawal is what the electorate has voted for - but we do not support it as it is.
 
IanM said:
Thornburry next leader? The one who has spent most of her career sneering at the working classes. Oh yes, that will really bring back the masses!
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You mean like this?

_79167164_79166701.jpg
 
I'd like to think there will be a realisation that 'London' Labour and rUK Labour occupy different 'worlds'. The rather 'fashionable' lefties in London are leading them into a false and divisive view of socialism. Unfortunately the candidates for the Leadership seem to only surrounded themselves with this bubble of fashionable leftyism, with friends and colleagues who reinforce this arrogant view that the rest of us don't understand socialism. Until they get a leadership team that understands the fans in the 'north' they will struggle to be a national party again. IMO.
 
pauldj42 said:
They have to vote against it, if it goes wrong they can stand there and say “we told you so” and to prevent the old “you agreed with it” that’s politics.

For the next 12-24 months Labour need to sort themselves out whilst being an annoying mozzie in the tory party ears, there’s little else they can do.
Click to expand...
That is a plan .. but remember the Tories backed Blair for the Gulf war in the HoC .. that little detail is completely forgotten.

The point is the "remainers" are a bunch of soft "bail out" merchants who had no conviction in their beliefs, the Tory vote was made up of a supposed large part of the remainers. These people are not remainers, they are Tory voters.

Corbyn did not lose on his brexit policy, he lost on all the things he did in the past that were so abhorrent to the Tory voters and those who were easily persuaded, the Labour swing areas well perhaps others have a more precise view.
The Labour regime is too left to be palatable for this country and until they realise this, they will shrink and we will have no opposition. Blair said as much in his own speech several nights ago .. say what you will about Blair but his success makes him credible.

The Lib Dems , I have no idea what the remainers were thinking not voting for the School Mum, this was their opportunity to keep the membership ... so in the end the remainers let go of opportunity and they should accept their consequences and suffer them quietly.

Sorry the Labour party has no one with any credible leadership skills in my opinion, I don't even connect with any of them, I just see young faces and big mouths .. I see no life experience.
 
harpo_72 said:
That is a plan .. but remember the Tories backed Blair for the Gulf war in the HoC .. that little detail is completely forgotten.

The point is the "remainers" are a bunch of soft "bail out" merchants who had no conviction in their beliefs, the Tory vote was made up of a supposed large part of the remainers. These people are not remainers, they are Tory voters.

Corbyn did not lose on his brexit policy, he lost on all the things he did in the past that were so abhorrent to the Tory voters and those who were easily persuaded, the Labour swing areas well perhaps others have a more precise view.
The Labour regime is too left to be palatable for this country and until they realise this, they will shrink and we will have no opposition. Blair said as much in his own speech several nights ago .. say what you will about Blair but his success makes him credible.

The Lib Dems , I have no idea what the remainers were thinking not voting for the School Mum, this was their opportunity to keep the membership ... so in the end the remainers let go of opportunity and they should accept their consequences and suffer them quietly.

Sorry the Labour party has no one with any credible leadership skills in my opinion, I don't even connect with any of them, I just see young faces and big mouths .. I see no life experience.
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Certainly agree that Labour didn’t lose it on one issue, they need to realise what changed between the 2017 & 2019 GE’s, Corbyn’s past didn’t change, brexit wasn’t the only reason, but it certainly played its part.
 
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