For all our booked times in comps it is 3 balls all the way. Funnily enough they sent the first round of club champs out in fours and it took nearly 5 hours. Back to 3's in the second round and back round in less than 4 hours playing medal
The nearest I've come to killing someone....
- Thread starter Imurg
- Start date
Scadge
Head Pro
We never have four balls for medal or any individual comps and I can't ever recall seeing a golf tournament on the telly (except skins) with more than 3.
Also was there a time sheet as I wondered if the group have been penalised for a late start if they had let you through ? Otherwise pretty poor etiquette on their part not to give you a run at it, I admire your restraint I might have had a word or two
Also was there a time sheet as I wondered if the group have been penalised for a late start if they had let you through ? Otherwise pretty poor etiquette on their part not to give you a run at it, I admire your restraint I might have had a word or two
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Wouldn't have thought so?
Say 3 x 4 ball are on the course at (for simplicity sake) at 5 min intervals. When the 2 ball catch up the rear pair and are let through the rear pair lose (say) 5mins. So 4ballA are still 5min ahead of 4ballB, who are just ahead of 2ball and 4ballC are 10 min behind 4BallB. The middle four now let through the 2 ball and lose their 5min. Now 4bA are just ahead of the 2b and 10min ahead of 4bB who are now just 5min ahead of 4bC. One more let through and its 2B then 4bA, then 5min to 4bB and a further 5min to 4bC. The four balls are now back to their original spacing and each group has only lost 5 min to let through the 2b.
Ok, it mounts up if there lots of 2b pushing through but just the one, then should be no real prob?
Say 3 x 4 ball are on the course at (for simplicity sake) at 5 min intervals. When the 2 ball catch up the rear pair and are let through the rear pair lose (say) 5mins. So 4ballA are still 5min ahead of 4ballB, who are just ahead of 2ball and 4ballC are 10 min behind 4BallB. The middle four now let through the 2 ball and lose their 5min. Now 4bA are just ahead of the 2b and 10min ahead of 4bB who are now just 5min ahead of 4bC. One more let through and its 2B then 4bA, then 5min to 4bB and a further 5min to 4bC. The four balls are now back to their original spacing and each group has only lost 5 min to let through the 2b.
Ok, it mounts up if there lots of 2b pushing through but just the one, then should be no real prob?
Scadge
Head Pro
My point was that it was my understanding that in a start sheet competition you have to tee off on time and (I think) get a 2 shot penalty if you are up to 5 minutes late and are disqualified for being later. I agree on the course you can let groups through but wasn't sure about the first tee.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Etiquette states that faster groups should be let through!
And, since 2008, a Single has been deemed to be a Group!
End of story.
If the club can't organise it better, then that's the club's (and the 4-ball's) 'problem'!
Another reason to take phone onto the course - for such 'emergencies'.
And, since 2008, a Single has been deemed to be a Group!
End of story.
If the club can't organise it better, then that's the club's (and the 4-ball's) 'problem'!
Another reason to take phone onto the course - for such 'emergencies'.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Just realised mine was missing Murphs quote - doesn't make sense without it...
"Never really understood this. If every four ball in the course lets the two through, and loses 5 minutes, then the last group out will lose way more than 5 minutes. Well over an hour, I'd think. Who is the selfish one then?"
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Interesting and well made point foxholer.
Obviously you can be penalised for not following the rules but what (if any) action can or would or should be taken for not following the etiquette guidelines? Rules and etiquette are two clearly different things.
Andy808
Tour Winner
As far as I'm concerned it's up to the group in front to decide if they are letting you through or not. If there is a clear hole in front of them then I start to get a bit miffed but if they are keeping pace with the group in front then tough!
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
Its got nothing to do with general pace of play, as all the 4 balls were playing at reasonable 4ball pace
Its got everything to do with letting a faster group through especially a quick 2 ball.
TheR&A 2012-2015 rule book states "Where a group has NOT lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through"
However these are Etiquette guidelines rather than rules
It would be better if they were rules rather than guidelines in my humble opinion then it would be easier to enforce.
Fragger
Its got everything to do with letting a faster group through especially a quick 2 ball.
TheR&A 2012-2015 rule book states "Where a group has NOT lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through"
However these are Etiquette guidelines rather than rules
It would be better if they were rules rather than guidelines in my humble opinion then it would be easier to enforce.
Fragger
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Sounds reasonable enough, anything in there about the etiquette of killing someone who isn't as polite as those in the chase group behind
Parless State
Newbie
It's usually a bit more complicated than that though, and the process of letting people through usually takes more time than that.
This is because it's usually impossible to actually catch up the slower group in front, simply because you have to wait for the group in front to get out of range before you can play off the tee or to the green.
So in your example, 4bC would have to wait, say, a time equal to half the spacing between groups - two and a half minutes in your example - for the 2ball to get to the next tee with them, or to clear the green if they let them play through down the fairway. So the 2ball hasn't taken the place of 4bC - it's slightly behind where 4bC was. And 4bC isn't where the 2ball was - again, it's slightly behind.
Now, that's OK for the 2ball, because they can now get further ahead of 4bC and make the time up. But 4bC, being a 4ball, probably can't speed up much to recover the ground lost in letting the 2ball through - and so they will hold up 4ballD, or whoever is behind the 2ball, even more.
Being more realistic with the timings, there's probably around 8 minutes or so between the groups on a busy course. So actually 4bC loses, say, 12 minutes - and everyone else behind them probably loses around 4 minutes. The total time lost to everyone else, if you look at it in 'man hours' is likely to be much greater than the time saved by the 2ball.
The only time you wouldn't see this effect is if the 2ball does actually meet 4bC on a tee. But if that happens, then it usually means that 4bC are being held up by the group in front of them - in which case in seems unfair for the 2ball to insist on playing through. Yes, in this case 4bC would only lose one spacing on the course, and would actually take the place of the 2ball, so the time they initially lose would be less. But they are then also likely to lose another few minutes if and when the 2ball plays through 4bB ahead.
In short, the nature of golf courses means that overtaking is relatively difficult, and not without a time cost, potentially to many other people on the course. Of course you should look to let a faster group play through where it's sensible to do so. But sometimes on busy courses, a faster group such as the original poster's should accept that they have a place in the queue, rather than complaining about not being allowed to save time themselves, at the expense of, potentially, several other groups. The most efficient way of getting golfers round a busy course where each group is more or less keeping up with the group in front of them - in terms of the average time per player - is likely to be, as far as I can see, for everyone to hold their place and no-one to play through.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Welcome aboard Parless!
A fairly succinct first post!
Indeed, while Etiquette states you should let a quicker group through, I can remember playing at a previous club once where some beginners, who were on the main course only because the 9-hole was closed - and it was a 'quiet' period, were trying to get us through but it actually took 7 holes for them and us to be in a position where we could do so.
We have Rangers, who actually do a great job of keeping the course flowing. If there's a quick group behind a couple of slower ones, then they'll be assisted through. But if there's only 4-balls ahead, then they'll be asked whether they want to push through or simply enjoy the walk, company, conversation and scenery!
If there's a (non-shotgun start) Society out, the 'rules' are different - as it's desirable that they finish as closely together as possible. So following players should be informed of and appreciate/accept what's happening. With more than 1 course, anyone who is in a real hurry (bad idea!) has plenty of choice.
A fairly succinct first post!
Indeed, while Etiquette states you should let a quicker group through, I can remember playing at a previous club once where some beginners, who were on the main course only because the 9-hole was closed - and it was a 'quiet' period, were trying to get us through but it actually took 7 holes for them and us to be in a position where we could do so.
We have Rangers, who actually do a great job of keeping the course flowing. If there's a quick group behind a couple of slower ones, then they'll be assisted through. But if there's only 4-balls ahead, then they'll be asked whether they want to push through or simply enjoy the walk, company, conversation and scenery!
If there's a (non-shotgun start) Society out, the 'rules' are different - as it's desirable that they finish as closely together as possible. So following players should be informed of and appreciate/accept what's happening. With more than 1 course, anyone who is in a real hurry (bad idea!) has plenty of choice.
TriggerTech
Head Pro
Got caught behind a 3 ball last weekend, one of the, only had 2 clubs 3 wood and an iron ! After first hole decided enough was enough (20min on a par 4) we drove over them - tough love
