Is this assuming that nobody else between 4th and 15th wins??
I get that. The point I’m making is it’s only 3 points. If you split the teams above into 3 groups. One group wins, one draws and one loses what does consecutive wins do for Utd?
I get that. The point I’m making is it’s only 3 points. If you split the teams above into 3 groups. One group wins, one draws and one loses what does consecutive wins do for Utd?
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
D
Deleted member 36742
Guest
When people compare the women's game to men's football and are less than complimentary they are told that it is a different game.
That being so then I fail to see how she could ever be considered for any job in men's football.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Think there will be a stage soon where a club will appointment a female manager but I don’t expect it to be within the Prem
Swango1980
Well-known member
Do you think a manager, whoever it is, can come in and boot out a mass of players? Especially those on huge contracts, costing the club millions?
Utd fans are often accused of living in the past by others, when it suits other fans. Yet, when it suits other fans, they can use the past to bash Man Utd. Do you genuinely think a young Alex Ferguson could come in now (not to mention he hasn't created any history with the club yet), and just say to the board "Right, Onana, Shaw, Dalot, Sancho, Zirkzee, Rashford, Garnacho, Hojlund, Casemiro, Mount, etc, get them all out of the club now. I don't care if you have to give them away, and pay out their contracts, get rid. Ohh, and please spend lots of money in buying better players, because I haven't had time to look at the youth academy, and make sure there are a great bunch of kids ready to take on the elite of the Premier League"
I'm sure Ferguson would do a brilliant job at Man Utd if a younger version of himself came to the club. But, he wouldn't be able to just rip everything to pieces. It would take years for him to slowly turn things around. A lot longer than he did 30 odd years ago as well, because players have so much more value now, and they all have agents who are willing to fight for every inch.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Southgate would be to Man Utd what Roy Hodgson was to Liverpool
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Still waiting for Chelsea to announce him this afternoon to be honest.
This started with the concept that Southgate wouldn't be good because he would not be able to change players at club level whilst he can at international level, the opposite of most thinking. You have now gone into full defensive mode about Utd. You are creating your own argument
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Anyone googled how much Mourinho has made when sacked over the years.
Don Barzini
Assistant Pro
He is nailed on to be your next manager.
Nuno out during the international break Jose in. I reckon it’s already a done deal.
Jose Mourinho is an arrogant, outspoken, dramatic, petty, moody, unapologetic, whingeing, serial-referee-bashing master of mind games, who is never far from controversy.
He'd be an absolutely PERFECT fit for Nottingham Forest!
(Seriously though, the Nuno thing has gone quiet - at least for now. Hopefully he and Edu have cleared the air and he's staying)
Swango1980
Well-known member
Nope, I'm consistently saying we can't keep blaming the manager. And I'm consistently saying no to Southgate.This started with the concept that Southgate wouldn't be good because he would not be able to change players at club level whilst he can at international level, the opposite of most thinking. You have now gone into full defensive mode about Utd. You are creating your own argument
You say Southgate can change players at international level. I think most people would agree, as they'd say he turned exciting world class players into bang average players who play well below their potential. People said that when Utd won Cups under ETH, it just papered over the cracks. Well, the same could be said about Southgate getting to finals. At times, it took a ridiculous Bellingham overhead kick to avoid embarrassing failures like Man Utd V Grimsby or England v Iceland.
There is nothing about Southgate that would give me any confidence that he could actually create a team that Man Utd fans could be proud of. Given that managers with better CV's seem to be struggling to do the job
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
There's a "peace summit" due next week now (think they've decided to wait until the international break, which makes sense)
BUT, Edu has removed himself from the training facilities altogether so hopefully that's a bit of an olive branch and realisation that doing so will only help the cause.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
This started with the concept that Southgate wouldn't be good because he would not be able to change players at club level whilst he can at international level, the opposite of most thinking. You have now gone into full defensive mode about Utd. You are creating your own argument
If it was a foreign manager with the same record as Southgate then I imo the feeling about him would be different
His record is pretty good
Two finals in the Euros , Semi Final in the World Cup and Quarters
Neilds
Assistant Pro
What do you want from a manager?
A. Solid but boring performances, gain points against 'lesser' teams but fail to beat the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City. End up with Europa League place and FA Cup Semi finals.
B. Flash exciting football but lots of 4-3 defeats. 12th place in league and lose in 3rd round of FA Cup.
Southgate may deliver A but would fans prefer B?
Don Barzini
Assistant Pro
Ah OK I thought that had taken place this week.
Fingers crossed for an end to this rubbish!
I suspect Southgate would not have Utd winning the title but he might well stabilise and get them back to top 6 more consistently. He would bring better results and stability. They can then move him on after 3 years or so if they want to take that next step but I think he would leave them in a better place than the last umpteen managers. He isn't sexy but he might be what they need at this moment.
I daren't lookAnyone googled how much Mourinho has made when sacked over the years.
. I think it would be an utterly depressing figure.
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
Just on Southgate in general...people often just look at his "failures" on the pitch (which are still more successful than just about every other England manager in all of our lifetimes). Yes, he didn't get the job done, but what a lot of people don't realise is that he took a complete basket case of a national setup and helped re-build from the ground up. Changed the culture, the structure and made players WANT to play for England again and make it a priority in their careers.
When we had the "golden generation" - they failed because club football was EVERYTHING and club rivalries were EVERYTHING. England came 2nd to club football in terms of player priority.
Southgate had a massive hand in completely changing that and the squad now want to play for the badge and those that aren't getting call ups are doing everything they can do get one. This simply CANNOT be overlooked as it has not only reflected how the Senior team have performed over the last 8 years, but also the U17's, 19s and 21's. The WHOLE setup at St Georges Park is completely different and that's due, in large part, to Southgate. So I find it ridiculous when people simply state "a better manager would have won us those finals"....when in actual fact, the team and setup would probably still be in such a state that we wouldn't have ever got into a position to be in those finals as it's not just what happens in the 3 weeks during a World Cup or Euros - its everything that happens outside of that as well.
That said, I'm not saying he could come in and manager a Premier League team and be successful - but it's embarrassing how much disrespect he gets for what he's achieved at International Level. Tuchel, you'd argue, is a better manager (won CL with Chelsea and has other numerous silverware to his name) - but he's arguably taken the team backwards from what we've seen so far.
When we had the "golden generation" - they failed because club football was EVERYTHING and club rivalries were EVERYTHING. England came 2nd to club football in terms of player priority.
Southgate had a massive hand in completely changing that and the squad now want to play for the badge and those that aren't getting call ups are doing everything they can do get one. This simply CANNOT be overlooked as it has not only reflected how the Senior team have performed over the last 8 years, but also the U17's, 19s and 21's. The WHOLE setup at St Georges Park is completely different and that's due, in large part, to Southgate. So I find it ridiculous when people simply state "a better manager would have won us those finals"....when in actual fact, the team and setup would probably still be in such a state that we wouldn't have ever got into a position to be in those finals as it's not just what happens in the 3 weeks during a World Cup or Euros - its everything that happens outside of that as well.
That said, I'm not saying he could come in and manager a Premier League team and be successful - but it's embarrassing how much disrespect he gets for what he's achieved at International Level. Tuchel, you'd argue, is a better manager (won CL with Chelsea and has other numerous silverware to his name) - but he's arguably taken the team backwards from what we've seen so far.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
That’s exactly it, we had GH who built a foundation , then Rafa but we never kept building
Rodgers came in during a low point and moved things forward until he couldn’t and then when it a better place Klopp came in
Southgate would imo get Man Utd more solid , and would get them around top 6 to build a foundation and then a top manager comes in
He wouldn’t imo alienate players in the way the past two managers have and wouldn’t need to just get rid of hordes of players - would actually give them a chance
Swango1980
Well-known member
I'm not sure why those must be the only 2 options though?
And regardless, decisions cannot be made based on knowing what the definitive outcome will be. We can't say we could bring in Southgate, and we guarantee football in the lesser European competitions, but play boring football. I'm also not sure Man Utd fans would generally get excited about being beaten semi finalists in the FA Cup either, or trying to solidify a Europa League spot? Might as well go out in the 3rd round in FA Cup.
You could just as easily bring in Southgate, play boring football and still finish way down the league. Or you could bring in a manager that plays exciting football, and gets us right up in the mix. And, in fairness, playing exciting football and losing the odd game 4-3 is tolerable. But, if you say we are finishing 12th and we are conceding around 4 goals in many many games, then obviously that would be seriously questioned anyway.
