The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

Just on Southgate in general...people often just look at his "failures" on the pitch (which are still more successful than just about every other England manager in all of our lifetimes). Yes, he didn't get the job done, but what a lot of people don't realise is that he took a complete basket case of a national setup and helped re-build from the ground up. Changed the culture, the structure and made players WANT to play for England again and make it a priority in their careers.

When we had the "golden generation" - they failed because club football was EVERYTHING and club rivalries were EVERYTHING. England came 2nd to club football in terms of player priority.

Southgate had a massive hand in completely changing that and the squad now want to play for the badge and those that aren't getting call ups are doing everything they can do get one. This simply CANNOT be overlooked as it has not only reflected how the Senior team have performed over the last 8 years, but also the U17's, 19s and 21's. The WHOLE setup at St Georges Park is completely different and that's due, in large part, to Southgate. So I find it ridiculous when people simply state "a better manager would have won us those finals"....when in actual fact, the team and setup would probably still be in such a state that we wouldn't have ever got into a position to be in those finals as it's not just what happens in the 3 weeks during a World Cup or Euros - its everything that happens outside of that as well.

That said, I'm not saying he could come in and manager a Premier League team and be successful - but it's embarrassing how much disrespect he gets for what he's achieved at International Level. Tuchel, you'd argue, is a better manager (won CL with Chelsea and has other numerous silverware to his name) - but he's arguably taken the team backwards from what we've seen so far.

Yet that is a point that is important not to overlook. Tuchel, is indeed, probably considered to be a better manager.

Managing a club on a day to day basis is drastically different to managing an international side. At international level, players do not get paid big juicy contracts. They can't have people around them, like agents, telling them how good they are and how any other side would take them. If things don't go well, Bellingham can't have his eyes turned and try and make a move to play for Brazil or France. So, playing for your country for free is considered to be an honour, and if any players are not on board, they don't come into the squad. Easy.

At club level, the manager has to work with players daily, and he is stuck with them. At least for 6 months, but perhaps a lot longer. If Man Utd win cups, and even finish top 3 in the league, their next defeat will still be pounced upon as a disaster. Whereas England mainly play hugely inferior teams, breeze through qualification (I'm sure any one of us in here could manage England to qualification, especially with some competent coaches around us), and are really only judged at big comps every 2 years. Yes, England ended up scraping through towards the final each time, fair play to them. But, they often made things much more difficult than it needed to be. And Southgate probably had a good few results that were in the balance, and if any had gone the other way (which easily could have happened), he'd have been sacked quickly.

It seems people like to rewrite history, and make it sound like England galloped to finals, scared all other teams, and where a powerhouse nation. They were not. Outside England, I bet the French, Italians, Brazilians, Spanish, etc did not fear England like they'd fear each other. As soon as England came up against a nation that was decent, they'd generally fall at that hurdle. England seemed to play scared, while the other nations played with a confidence.

I agree, Southgate is a really really good diplomat. He has his strengths in management. But, I also believe he has gaping flaws that will hurt him badly when managing at club level.

 

[Neilds]

No TAA in the England squad, did he make the right move this summer?

 

[Don Barzini]

Goalkeepers: Jordan Pickford, James Trafford, Dean Henderson

Defenders: Reece James, Marc Guehi, John Stones, Dan Burn, Ezri Konsa, Myles Lewis-Skelly, Tino Livramento, Djed Spence

Midfielders: Elliot Anderson, Morgan Gibbs-White, Jordan Henderson, Adam Wharton, Morgan Rogers, Declan Rice

Forwards: Harry Kane, Eberechi Eze, Jarrod Bowen, Anthony Gordon, Noni Madueke, Marcus Rashford, Ollie Watkins



Very pleased to see the young up-and-coming Jordan Henderson in there

 

[Arthur Wedge]

No TAA in the England squad, did he make the right move this summer?

His bank balance thinks he has

He currently is warming the bench

 

[irip]

Goalkeepers: Jordan Pickford, James Trafford, Dean Henderson

Defenders: Reece James, Marc Guehi, John Stones, Dan Burn, Ezri Konsa, Myles Lewis-Skelly, Tino Livramento, Djed Spence

Midfielders: Elliot Anderson, Morgan Gibbs-White, Jordan Henderson, Adam Wharton, Morgan Rogers, Declan Rice

Forwards: Harry Kane, Eberechi Eze, Jarrod Bowen, Anthony Gordon, Noni Madueke, Marcus Rashford, Ollie Watkins



Very pleased to see the young up-and-coming Jordan Henderson in there

Marcus Rashford as well?

It’s a bit strange having international games this early in the season, how is the manager meant to know who is playing well and who is struggling for minutes?

Jack Grealish I feel sorry for, he could have sat on the bench for City but he wants to play and sees Rashford in front of him?

Also what’s the point of all them forwards? We all know Kane will play every minute

 

[Swango1980]

Marcus Rashford as well?

It’s a bit strange having international games this early in the season, how is the manager meant to know who is playing well and who is struggling for minutes?

Jack Grealish I feel sorry for, he could have sat on the bench for City but he wants to play and sees Rashford in front of him?

Also what’s the point of all them forwards? We all know Kane will play every minute

I suppose you could say the same about the goalkeepers, as we know Pickford will play every minute?

I suppose the positive for Grealish is, if he has a really good season for Everton, he could force himself into the squad when it really matters. But I agree with your first bit, I hate international breaks art this point in the season. Despise them

 

[Orikoru]

Goalkeepers: Jordan Pickford, James Trafford, Dean Henderson

Defenders: Reece James, Marc Guehi, John Stones, Dan Burn, Ezri Konsa, Myles Lewis-Skelly, Tino Livramento, Djed Spence

Midfielders: Elliot Anderson, Morgan Gibbs-White, Jordan Henderson, Adam Wharton, Morgan Rogers, Declan Rice

Forwards: Harry Kane, Eberechi Eze, Jarrod Bowen, Anthony Gordon, Noni Madueke, Marcus Rashford, Ollie Watkins



Very pleased to see the young up-and-coming Jordan Henderson in there

Other than him and Rashford being in it, there are some surprisingly nice call-ups. Good to see Spence, Anderson, Wharton, Rogers.

Is Bellingham injured? Quite funny that we had that whole 'Bellingham-Foden-Palmer' dilemma and now none of them are there.

 

[Orikoru]

I suppose you could say the same about the goalkeepers, as we know Pickford will play every minute?

I suppose the positive for Grealish is, if he has a really good season for Everton, he could force himself into the squad when it really matters. But I agree with your first bit, I hate international breaks art this point in the season. Despise them

Yeah such a stupid time to do it. The season has barely begun. Should at least let clubs and players get 7 or 8 games under their belts.

 

[Neilds]

No one from Liverpool or Man Utd in the squad, wonder when that last happened?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

quite a refreshing squad tbh, with the exception of Henderson how he’s still playing I don’t know.

The MF looks good some quality young players in there and as for TAA in my opinion the squad doesn’t look weaker without him.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Good to see Hendo in the squad

 

[Arthur Wedge]

No one from Liverpool or Man Utd in the squad, wonder when that last happened?

We really only have Curtis Jones and Elliot for England and seems Jones has been dropped after being in the couple of squads

The less Liverpool players that get called up the better imo

 

[Aztecs27]

Goalkeepers: Jordan Pickford, James Trafford, Dean Henderson

Defenders: Reece James, Marc Guehi, John Stones, Dan Burn, Ezri Konsa, Myles Lewis-Skelly, Tino Livramento, Djed Spence

Midfielders: Elliot Anderson, Morgan Gibbs-White, Jordan Henderson, Adam Wharton, Morgan Rogers, Declan Rice

Forwards: Harry Kane, Eberechi Eze, Jarrod Bowen, Anthony Gordon, Noni Madueke, Marcus Rashford, Ollie Watkins



Very pleased to see the young up-and-coming Jordan Henderson in there

Finding out we have TWO England internationals in our squad on the same day we've just been drawn our Europa League fixtures...when I was celebrating drawing with Derby County Away this time 4 years ago...is quite surreal.

 

[road2ruin]

Issue with Moyes was taking over from Ferguson and being left with a squad that was right at the end - needed a lot of work

Whilst Fergie will always been seen as a United legend he needs to carry a huge amount of responsibility for the position United are in now. He let the Glazers through the door. He has never said a bad word about them, just happy to have taken the ambassador's pay cheque (until recently).

The future planning of the club was massively lacking, to lose both Fergie and Gill at the same time wasn't idea but it didn't seem to be that a procession plan was in place.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Xavi Simons transfer news: Tottenham on verge of £51.8m deal for RB Leipzig attacker

Tottenham are on the verge of signing RB Leipzig and Netherlands attacker Xavi Simons for £51.8m.

www.bbc.co.uk

Think this is a smart signing - a lot of potential

 

[4LEX]

I always said the best time to come in would be after the first post-Ferguson manager had moved on. It was almost as though Moyes was a bit of a sacrificial lamb.

Bottom line, the club has spent way too long resting on its laurels, being blissfully unaware that the elite football world around them was evolving, and that they needed to adapt with it. Just because United had enjoyed two decades of success did not mean it would simply continue as some sort of divine right.

Sadly, those (not actually) at the helm simply weren’t bothered, providing the tills kept ringing. The club became a crumbling wreck, and the only thought given seemed to be that a change in manager would bring back the good old days, whilst totally ignoring the fact that the foundations had given way.

This is about way more than who wears the tracksuit in the dugout. Always has been.

But only because those running the club kept appointing the wrong managers and DOF. The club as a business was making loads of money and still is. There's not much you can do off the pitch apart from build a new stadium and that's a huge issue.

 

[Neilds]

We really only have Curtis Jones and Elliot for England and seems Jones has been dropped after being in the couple of squads

The less Liverpool players that get called up the better imo

When is the next African Nations Cup?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

When is the next African Nations Cup?

January isn’t it

 

[Arthur Wedge]

When is the next African Nations Cup?

January

 

[Neilds]

January

Just so we can get ready for the moaning again