The Footie Thread

[Arthur Wedge]

OK, can someone who knows more about football finances, particularly Man Utd's, please explain this to me...

Club in disarray. Owners sacking canteen staff and stopping free lunch for employees because they can't afford it. After losing the Europa League final, no European competitions of any sort and wide reports of them being in serious and unprecendented financial trouble as a result of missing out on the £100m payday of Champions League.

Couple of days later, Fabrizio is reporting Cunha deal for £62.5m very close and advanced talks with Bryan Mbeumo, plus heavy links to Liam Delap.

Meanwhile Villa probably have to sell someone because they have a big wage bill.

How does this all add up?

Suspect Man Utd will be looking to see a significant amount of players to balance the books

The likes of

Rashford
Mainoo
Garnancho

Will go

A few let go on free

May even sell Bruno

Puzzling isn't it....When Sir Jim admitted directly in an interview that the club were over £300m in debt.

I can only assume thy are speculating to accumulate and hoping that the sales of some players this season will offset the £150m they are, apparently, looking to spend on about 2-3 players.

They currently owe around £300mil in transfer fees for players already bought

 

[Bdill93]

OK, can someone who knows more about football finances, particularly Man Utd's, please explain this to me...

Club in disarray. Owners sacking canteen staff and stopping free lunch for employees because they can't afford it. After losing the Europa League final, no European competitions of any sort and wide reports of them being in serious and unprecendented financial trouble as a result of missing out on the £100m payday of Champions League.

Couple of days later, Fabrizio is reporting Cunha deal for £62.5m very close and advanced talks with Bryan Mbeumo, plus heavy links to Liam Delap.

Meanwhile Villa probably have to sell someone because they have a big wage bill.

How does this all add up?

Our issues will be like this every year, we spend close to the line then sell a player before the cut off deadline to balance the books.

United - despite the terrible football on show this season - generate whopping amounts of money that cover the costs of their squad.

Villa - do not.

Welcome to the wonderful world of trying to keep up with the big 6, you're in this mess with us and Newcastle now!

 

[Tashyboy]

OK, can someone who knows more about football finances, particularly Man Utd's, please explain this to me...

Club in disarray. Owners sacking canteen staff and stopping free lunch for employees because they can't afford it. After losing the Europa League final, no European competitions of any sort and wide reports of them being in serious and unprecendented financial trouble as a result of missing out on the £100m payday of Champions League.

Couple of days later, Fabrizio is reporting Cunha deal for £62.5m very close and advanced talks with Bryan Mbeumo, plus heavy links to Liam Delap.

Meanwhile Villa probably have to sell someone because they have a big wage bill.

How does this all add up?

It don’t and Ave said it before. Utd taking money out of football and City putting in too much including extending stadium, but it is City that are ruining football. Coupled with the fact that not one single team that gets promoted from the Championship is on a level playing field under FFP ( Apart from when City are relegated to Vauxhall conference North). It’s a bag of crap.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It don’t and Ave said it before. Utd taking money out of football and City putting in too much including extending stadium, but it is City that are ruining football. Coupled with the fact that not one single team that gets promoted from the Championship is on a level playing field under FFP ( Apart from when City are relegated to Vauxhall conference North). It’s a bag of crap.

What a very strange tangent to bring city and their issues into it “putting money into football” - make it sound like a good thing

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Glad the season is complete. Looking forward to having a full pre season and window under potter. So many positives to look forward to for me. Summerville will return (who has been a bright spark when playing) fulkerg is back to fitness. Bowen is on fire.. just some Chelsea reject doesn't rate him lol on top of that potter took control of 18 premier league games. We let on 24 goals and scored 22. Compare that to j-lo 19 goals score but let in 38!! Whilst that's not the free flowing scoring you want not letting in 2 games a game is much better.

Same squad aswell really just brought back JWP to correct jlos mistake and brought in Ferguson who didn't score

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I see the FIFA President has suggested Ronaldo may transfer to a Club World Cup side before the tournament.

Why is the FIFA President getting involved in transfer discussions? Is he an agent now. Or is the World Club Cup going to allow a player for hire scheme, where players can sign for tournament, then go back to their normal club after?

Shock that Ronaldo is leaving his current Saudi club

I wonder which club that’s playing in the Club World Cup he ends up signing a short term contract ( paid for by FIFA in some way ) with

Odds on fav

Al Ain

Then

Al Hilai

With Seattle Sounders being outsiders

La FC will be in with a shout if they qualify

 

[Don Barzini]

Welcome to the wonderful world of trying to keep up with the big 6, you're in this mess with us and Newcastle now!

But it's a level playing field for all of course!

If the rumours are true, Oil FC will give us the equivalent of the lost fortune of the Spada family for MGW, so we may be OK for a year or so.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

But it's a level playing field for all of course!

If the rumours are true, Oil FC will give us the equivalent of the lost fortune of the Spada family for MGW, so we may be OK for a year or so.

When it comes to a level playing field

When was that last time in sport there actually was a level playing field

And how can one be created ?

Maybe use the US sports model ? Worst team gets the best players etc

 

[Don Barzini]

When it comes to a level playing field

When was that last time in sport there actually was a level playing field

And how can one be created ?

Maybe use the US sports model ? Worst team gets the best players etc

I'll hold my hands up and admit I don't pretend to have answers which don't come with their own set of problems.

But the fact that club investors/owners are forbidden to spend their own money on a club is the issue for me. The fact that only certain clubs are FORCED to sell their best players while a few select others aren't, is horrendous. There has to be a way around that. I don't believe the rules such as they exist are fair. Whatever else they achieve, they simply keep the same few teams in a position which doesn't allow anyone else to make a sustained challenge on their dominance.

I am unfamiliar with the US sports model, but I wouldn't support the idea of the worst team getting the best players.

 

[Neilds]

But still no mention of a little Welsh club ruining the lower divisions and spending loads of money? They are by far the worst offenders in my eyes.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I'll hold my hands up and admit I don't pretend to have answers which don't come with their own set of problems.

But the fact that club investors/owners are forbidden to spend their own money on a club is the issue for me. The fact that only certain clubs are FORCED to sell their best players while a few select others aren't, is horrendous. There has to be a way around that. I don't believe the rules such as they exist are fair. Whatever else they achieve, they simply keep the same few teams in a position which doesn't allow anyone else to make a sustained challenge on their dominance.

I am unfamiliar with the US sports model, but I wouldn't support the idea of the worst team getting the best players.

For me to find some way of balance is

They take the club with the highest “genuine” revenue

And then use that to calculate what all the others can spend

But if any club wants to use owners money to enable them to spend that level of money then those funds from owners must not be used as debt on the club

So that way every single club can spent the same amount of money


There has to be some sort of rules in place to stop it just being about which owner has the deepest pockets

 

[Swango1980]

I'll hold my hands up and admit I don't pretend to have answers which don't come with their own set of problems.

But the fact that club investors/owners are forbidden to spend their own money on a club is the issue for me. The fact that only certain clubs are FORCED to sell their best players while others aren't, is horrendous. There has to be a way around that. I don't believe the rules such as they exist are fair. Whatever else they achieve, they simply keep the same few teams in a position which doesn't allow anyone else to make a sustained challenge on their dominance.

I am unfamiliar with the US sports model, but I wouldn't support the idea of the worst team getting the best players.

Like Man Utd and Spurs have brilliantly stayed in their top 6 position?

The most wealthy sides have generally built themselves into that position over many many decades. Occasionally, a mega wealthy owner has come along, and transformed a side into a pretty average PL side to one of the best. That obviously got a lot of criticism from fans, as that kind of "instant success" seemed very unfair. I appreciate Newcastle fans would love their club to spend all the money their owners have. They may have a different view if those owners had bought Sunderland or Middlesbrough instead.

For every "Top 6" club that Forest fans have a bitterness towards, there are fans of very many more clubs that may hold the same resentment towards Forest. Living in Lincoln, I know many Lincoln City fans that could only dream of being where Forest are. After a good season, and getting European football, there is a realistic chance that Forest could sustain that over the next few years, and build up their coffers, build their global brand, etc.

If a level playing field for all football clubs was truly possible, then the probability would likely be that all of our clubs would be at real risk of falling out of the Premier League (for those of us that support PL clubs). Just considering the Top 92 clubs and not factoring in promotion/relegation below this, there would only be a 22% chance of a club being in the PL. So, you can understand why many of the most wealthy clubs don't want a level playing field (so to speak), and potentially eliminate the brand they spend decades trying to build.

 

[4LEX]

But still no mention of a little Welsh club ruining the lower divisions and spending loads of money? They are by far the worst offenders in my eyes.

If you look into their accounts they're actually doing very well. Whether you like the owners or the TV show the fact is it's making them a lot of money and the income has sky rocketed. The owners gave them a kickstart but now they look sustainable.

I'm a bit concerned as they're rumoured to be eyeing up a £4-5m bid for Charlie Savage.

 

[Don Barzini]

Like Man Utd and Spurs have brilliantly stayed in their top 6 position?

Heh heh.

But the thing is, the "Big Six" doesn't (necessarily) equate to league position.

As I said a couple of posts ago, Man Utd are in the absolute doldrums on the pitch and yet they are still able to attract and pay for top talent and sooner or later they'll be back challenging.

Same applies to Spurs. They could sack Ange tomorrow, click their fingers at just about any other manager in the Prem outside the Big Six and he would come running. (And that would be true even if they hadn't qualified for CL via winning the Europa).

That sort of thing is really what I mean when I talk about their protected position. Not just results on the pitch. The very fact that even when they're dog***t, they can still attract the best options to turn it round. It's a position no-one else can ever hope to get near to under the current rules. I mean, if people are OK with that, that's fine and you're absolutely entitled to hold that view. I get why fans of The Protected Six wouldn't want it to change. Personally, I dislike it though and will never agree it's anything but unfair on everyone else.

 

[Don Barzini]

I'm a bit concerned as they're rumoured to be eyeing up a £4-5m bid for Charlie Savage.

What's the word with Reading's new owners 4LEX? Are they willing and able to make some signings over the summer?

 

[RichA]

For every "Top 6" club that Forest fans have a bitterness towards, there are fans of very many more clubs that may hold the same resentment towards Forest. Living in Lincoln, I know many Lincoln City fans that could only dream of being where Forest are. After a good season, and getting European football, there is a realistic chance that Forest could sustain that over the next few years, and build up their coffers, build their global brand, etc.

Why are you stereotyping Forest fans?
I don't resent any other clubs. Personally, I think we're very fortunate to have the backing of an unusually enthusiastic and philanthropic owner.
I also think there should be a more sensible mechanism that prevents any franchise chucking millions around like it's Monopoly money while others have to sell off homegrown assets to avoid penalties.

 

[clubchamp98]

Heh heh.

But the thing is, the "Big Six" doesn't (necessarily) equate to league position.

As I said a couple of posts ago, Man Utd are in the absolute doldrums on the pitch and yet they are still able to attract and pay for top talent and sooner or later they'll be back challenging.

Same applies to Spurs. They could sack Ange tomorrow, click their fingers at just about any other manager in the Prem outside the Big Six and he would come running. (And that would be true even if they hadn't qualified for CL via winning the Europa).

That sort of thing is really what I mean when I talk about their protected position. Not just results on the pitch. The very fact that even when they're dog***t, they can still attract the best options to turn it round. It's a position no-one else can ever hope to get near to under the current rules. I mean, if people are OK with that, that's fine and you're absolutely entitled to hold that view. I get why fans of The Protected Six wouldn't want it to change. Personally, I dislike it though and will never agree it's anything but unfair on everyone else.

The thing is you did have a seat at the top .
You won titles and European cups a while ago but for whatever reason you slipped down the leagues while the other teams didn’t.

Why was that ?

 

[Don Barzini]

The thing is you did have a seat at the top .
You won titles and European cups a while ago but for whatever reason you slipped down the leagues while the other teams didn’t.

Why was that ?

Blimey, how long have you got?!?!

 

[RichA]

The thing is you did have a seat at the top .
You won titles and European cups a while ago but for whatever reason you slipped down the leagues while the other teams didn’t.

Why was that ?

Alcohol and lack of oversight.

 

[clubchamp98]

Blimey, how long have you got?!?!

About two months until any footy.

But I remember Forest being a BIG club winning with Brian Clough many shiny things.
So was it the fault of the big six or your own fault through bad decisions over the years.?

Nobody can explain the money in footy imo.
But your starting point was crucial when the rules we’re updated