The Footie Thread

[GB72]

I've lost interest in the relegation fight at this time. Just no point in taking an interest in any of the games these teams play, as nobody has any idea who will get docked points, and how many points they will be docked. Maybe once everything is finalised, the things will be interesting again, from a fans perspective.

I might as well put a bet on both Burnley and Sheffield Utd staying up, as maybe there is still a chance 3 other teams will get big enough points deductions to get them relegated.

I would certainly have a statute of limitations on these matters. All charges need to be raised and all sanctions applied within 12 months of the offence taking place. It is not as if the league does not have the money to pay a bunch of forensic accountants and if they cannot work out if there has been a rule breach in that time, the rule is either too complicated or too vague and needs updating.

 

[Don Barzini]

It's still within your hands at that level of fine. Any more could have been a real blow but even without winning some back on appeal this shouldn't be a devastating moment. It doesn't stop you from going down but you are only one point from safety with 9 games left. That's in your own hands still.

Can't disagree with that summary. Much as it pains me to say, if we can't outperform Luton by a couple of points at this stage of the season, we don't deserve stay up.

 

[nickjdavis]

Well 4 points. Could have been better, could have been worse. Hopefully reduced on appeal.

Would an appeal be potentially considered frivolous and therefore be subject to possible extended punishment?

It seems to me (and this is only going on what little I've read) that the Forest case is relatively simple (in comparison to City/Everton)...and their defence is simply an argument about it not being in the clubs interest to sell Johnson before the accounting deadline. If the accounting period ended 30th June, and the sale did not go through until 1st September, I cant really see how this defence stands up, unless they can somehow argue about it (the decision to sell Johnson later on) being in the best long term financial interests of the club....but surely that would be an argument that has already been presented?

 

[clubchamp98]

I've lost interest in the relegation fight at this time. Just no point in taking an interest in any of the games these teams play, as nobody has any idea who will get docked points, and how many points they will be docked. Maybe once everything is finalised, the things will be interesting again, from a fans perspective.

I might as well put a bet on both Burnley and Sheffield Utd staying up, as maybe there is still a chance 3 other teams will get big enough points deductions to get them relegated.

City should be one.
Chelsea maybe.
We just need one more to save Burnley.

 

[clubchamp98]

Apprently Everton's overspend was £19.5 mill and 10 points reduced to 6, Forests was £35 mill but 6 points reduced by 2 to 4 due to co-operation, it does feel a little like they are out to get us.

Is that saying Everton didn’t cooperate?

City should be in big trouble if cooperation is a factor.!

 

[IanM]

Forest docked points for not having lawyers as scary as City!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Is that saying Everton didn’t cooperate?

City should be in big trouble if cooperation is a factor.!

I think forest fessed up straight away to being guilty but gave some mitigating reasons, hoping that would get them off.

Everton argued they shouldn't have been charged at all and fought all the way, meaning the process took longer.

Apparently we should have known our place and taken the whack .

Our next ruling could be interesting . If we fight it and lose we get the full 6 points off

 

[Hogieefc]

The trouble with FFP is that no one at the Premier league has set an actual table of how many points you get deducted per 10 million or whatever you happen to overspend, Everton went 19.5 million over and got a 10 point deduction reduced to six after an appeal, so if we are saying that it's 3 points for every 10 million then you could argue that Forest should get a minimum of 9 as they overspent by 34.5 million,unfortunately the Premier League appear to have just made things up as they go along.

 

[Tashyboy]

I think forest fessed up straight away to being guilty but gave some mitigating reasons, hoping that would get them off.

Everton argued they shouldn't have been charged at all and fought all the way, meaning the process took longer.

Apparently we should have known our place and taken the whack .

Our next ruling could be interesting . If we fight it and lose we get the full 6 points off

I think Forest had no choice but to Fes up. That said I still think they have been shafted. And I still think that having a financial year ending during the close season is just plain stupid. Have it when the season finishes or the transfer season finishes.
No one has told me why this current date makes sense.

 

[Tashyboy]

The trouble with FFP is that no one at the Premier league has set an actual table of how many points you get deducted per 10 million or whatever you happen to overspend, Everton went 19.5 million over and got a 10 point deduction reduced to six after an appeal, so if we are saying that it's 3 points for every 10 million then you could argue that Forest should get a minimum of 9 as they overspent by 34.5 million,unfortunately the Premier League appear to have just made things up as they go along.

I would take a four point reduction

 

[Tashyboy]

The man truly is odious. Sure, he's all cuddly-wuddly, flashing his pearly whites and being gracious and humble when he wins or when things are otherwise going his way. The second he's unhappy though, the mask comes off, the true snake in the grass beneath is revealed and the toys get chucked out the pram as per this video. Great manager. Awful human being.

That tweet is correct - the main English media outlets won't make anything of this. It doesn't fit the vomit-inducing narrative they love to peddle about "Klopp's farewell tour" and that no-one cares about other than Liverpool fans.

Just shown this to my son, he is no lover of Klopp but he has actually defended Klopp. Apparently the Dutch interviewer is a grade one tool and has lots of history of firing loaded questions to managers. By all accounts it’s the norm in Dutch football.
Personally I think the British pundits are to “ pally” with the present footballers. The only one I could listen to all day is Roy Keane.

 

[Billysboots]

I would take a four point reduction

If some of the rumours are true and speculation accurate, you’re more likely to see a four division relegation, Tash

 

[PaulMdj]

The trouble with FFP is that no one at the Premier league has set an actual table of how many points you get deducted per 10 million or whatever you happen to overspend, Everton went 19.5 million over and got a 10 point deduction reduced to six after an appeal, so if we are saying that it's 3 points for every 10 million then you could argue that Forest should get a minimum of 9 as they overspent by 34.5 million,unfortunately the Premier League appear to have just made things up as they go along.

Everton’s spend was over 3 years, ie £35 mil person season, Forest’s was over a shorter period and was £62mil as only recently promoted.

I’m hoping Everton fight the double jeopardy, we’ve already been punished for 2 of the 3 years, so I can’t see it being fair if those years are used against us again.

I know this may not be popular, but the timing of these charges is ridiculous. If found guilty the teams should start the next season with the points deduction.

Different reporting periods, but Forest only have 9 games to make up the defecit, Everton had 20+ first time round and if we don’t get done by end of march then we’ll have less than 9 if found guilty.

 

[PJ87]

I think the fairest solution is to relegate city, Everton and forest. Dividing their stars up between the rest of the league

We will take Gibbs white , braitwaite and Alvarez from city

The rest of you can fight amongst yourselfs for everyone else

 

[backwoodsman]

Was having a conversation with two other Forest fans at the golf club. General concensus was '5 points or less and we should be able to cope - more than 5, we're doomed'. So 4 points - whilst a b#gger - is liveable with. I hope.

But whilst I accept we're guilty, it seems to me the whole system is bandy. To inflict a punishment part way (most of the way?) through a season just seems wrong. A team needs to start a season knowing the penalty they need to overcome. Forest now only have 9 games left. Everton are going to have even less. (Meanwhile,City and Chelsea seem to have several seasons ...) (And ok, I accept that if we'd done rather better to date, then the penalty wouldn't be an issue ...)

 

[clubchamp98]

I would take a four point reduction

Per charge ?

 

[Tashyboy]

Per charge ?

Per season

 

[clubchamp98]

Per season

To lenient.
You would be in the Vanarama league if justice is done.!

 

[Don Barzini]

Just shown this to my son, he is no lover of Klopp but he has actually defended Klopp. Apparently the Dutch interviewer is a grade one tool and has lots of history of firing loaded questions to managers. By all accounts it’s the norm in Dutch football.

Not buying that as an excuse, sorry to your son. Klopp has been a top level manager for how many years now? And dealt with how many reporters and their questions in that time? With all that experience, if he can't deal with a "loaded" question like this (which wasn't even that "loaded" to be honest) without behaving the way he did then it's just testament to his true character - an odious, man-baby twonk.

 

[Hobbit]

Was having a conversation with two other Forest fans at the golf club. General concensus was '5 points or less and we should be able to cope - more than 5, we're doomed'. So 4 points - whilst a b#gger - is liveable with. I hope.

But whilst I accept we're guilty, it seems to me the whole system is bandy. To inflict a punishment part way (most of the way?) through a season just seems wrong. A team needs to start a season knowing the penalty they need to overcome. Forest now only have 9 games left. Everton are going to have even less. (Meanwhile,City and Chelsea seem to have several seasons ...) (And ok, I accept that if we'd done rather better to date, then the penalty wouldn't be an issue ...)

I’m not sure I even agree with a deduction of points, irrespective of which club is involved. For me it hurts the players and the fans, neither of which have had anything to do with how the club is managed financially. And I don’t think a fine really does much harm to clubs like City & Chelsea.

If I was putting together a table of penalties based on how much a club has transgressed, I’d start with a 3 year transfer ban(buying) going up to 6 years. But is there a need for an ultimate sanction, e.g. a cap on selling price for transfers? Imagine Haaland only being worth 20% of his value for 4 years!

I’m still hurting from Boro’s 3 point deduction from 20 years ago. Points deductions are so cruel.

As for when a case should be heard? I don’t know when all the clubs report their finances but I can’t see why it can’t be resolved within one month of a declaration deadline. Any appeal will extend things but just add another month, and it’s also the club’s decision to take the risk of appealing and extending that deadline.