The Footie Thread

[Billysboots]

I could be wrong, but most Man U fans come across as hating Souness due to what he has consistently said about Pogba for a few years.

Most seem to be in agreement now, or at least over the last 18 months over Pogba.

He should have been a world great as has many great attributes, but his own application, attitude and work rate has stopped him.

My dislike of Souness has nothing to do with anything he has ever said about Pogba, or indeed United in general. He is just a morose, humourless and aggressive pundit. I can’t stand the man, I’m afraid.

With regards to Pogba, I have done my level best to be patient with him, in the hope he can show us consistently what he is capable of. The club have done the same. Given the nature of so many of his performances, I think it fair to say Solskjaer has cut him an enormous amount of slack, far more than other players have been allowed. Other managers, I suspect, would not have been anywhere near as generous.

I used to think United could not step up a level without players of Pogba’s quality in the side. In a complete turnaround I am now firmly of the view that it is precisely because of the likes of Pogba that we are where we are. We’ll be far better off without him.

 

[Billysboots]

My frustrations with Rashford are I hope for so much more. If anyone in that team could be our Mbappe, he has the attributes. However, he frequently seems to make the wrong decision. Does something great, then does one step over too many, or a shoddy pass.

My mates think I’m bonkers when I talk about Rashford but, for some considerable time, I have been very critical of him. The phrase I have used many times now is that, whilst capable of the extraordinary, Rashford makes a hash of the ordinary fat too often. The excuse was made on his behalf towards the end of last season that he was carrying an injury, but my observations pre-dated that.

By far and away the biggest frustration I have with Rashford is his decision making, which is invariably very average, and that’s being generous. Far too often, having beaten one man he’ll then try and beat two more, and end up in a heap on the turf, feigning injury, having been dispossessed. It happens time and again, and it is so frustrating to watch. And his finishing at times leaves a lot to be desired. Flashes of brilliance do not hide the fact that much of what he does isn’t good enough. He’s been a very lucky boy to be anywhere near the England squad in recent months.

Realistically, Rashford would not be a regular starter at Chelsea or Liverpool. He has huge potential. But there has to come a time when he puts his mistakes behind him or he will always remain a player with huge potential, and that would be a crying shame.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

God I hope so. Would be hilarious if they got relegated immediately after becoming the richest club on earth.

Howe ironically can't organise a defence

My mates think I’m bonkers when I talk about Rashford but, for some considerable time, I have been very critical of him. The phrase I have used many times now is that, whilst capable of the extraordinary, Rashford makes a hash of the ordinary fat too often. The excuse was made on his behalf towards the end of last season that he was carrying an injury, but my observations pre-dated that.

By far and away the biggest frustration I have with Rashford is his decision making, which is invariably very average, and that’s being generous. Far too often, having beaten one man he’ll then try and beat two more, and end up in a heap on the turf, feigning injury, having been dispossessed. It happens time and again, and it is so frustrating to watch. And his finishing at times leaves a lot to be desired. Flashes of brilliance do not hide the fact that much of what he does isn’t good enough. He’s been a very lucky boy to be anywhere near the England squad in recent months.

Realistically, Rashford would not be a regular starter at Chelsea or Liverpool. He has huge potential. But there has to come a time when he puts his mistakes behind him or he will always remain a player with huge potential, and that would be a crying shame.

I see what you mean

I think rashford is like lingard. Unfortunately come through at one of the big boys so unless he top top class will always struggle to keep his place

I think rashford would be perfect at West ham, Everton, Leicester, spurs if Kane had been sold .. not saying he would walk into these teams just more the level he could command a more regular place and prob perform more consistent

 

[clubchamp98]

Yeah, just seen they said it was for the foul. Pretty shocked. Initially the ref didn't give the impression it would be a red. He only seemed to change his mind when the player didn't come over to him.

I appreciate cynical fouls are annoying. But they are so common, often called the professional foul. Often players are praised by commentators for "taking one for the team" and getting their yellow. Not sure I remember a straight red for such a foul. So not sure if they've changed the goalposts in terms of what is a red card these days. I imagine most fans would he furious if one of their players got sent off for such a foul.

Not that I mind tonight, I think Atletico are one of my least favourite European sides.

One of them finished me as a footballer so I hate them.
But if it wasn’t for the foul then he got a straight red for dissent.
If he had shown two yellows it might teach these arrogant spoilt brats they need to show the ref some respect.
You would never see that in a rugby match!
He did rake his studs down his Achilles.
Thought the ref was very good. But he did give a few very head scratching decisions both ways.

Great display from us.but we had some sitters that we missed, that goal average might have made sure they don’t qualify.
Great to see OX playing well.

 

[Swango1980]

My dislike of Souness has nothing to do with anything he has ever said about Pogba, or indeed United in general. He is just a morose, humourless and aggressive pundit. I can’t stand the man, I’m afraid.

With regards to Pogba, I have done my level best to be patient with him, in the hope he can show us consistently what he is capable of. The club have done the same. Given the nature of so many of his performances, I think it fair to say Solskjaer has cut him an enormous amount of slack, far more than other players have been allowed. Other managers, I suspect, would not have been anywhere near as generous.

I used to think United could not step up a level without players of Pogba’s quality in the side. In a complete turnaround I am now firmly of the view that it is precisely because of the likes of Pogba that we are where we are. We’ll be far better off without him.

I think this is a post that could 100% be echoed by myself.

 

[Junior]

I think you are either underestimating Ronaldo's ability, or overestimating Cavani and Greenwood, to simply say they would have scored those goals anyway. To think they would crop up at that crucial moment and execute the perfect shot when needed is a huge assumption. That second goal he scored against Atalanta was ridiculous, the sort of chance you see players, time and time again, snatch the shot wide, duff it into a defender, hit it straight at keeper or blaze it over. Before Greenwood even flicked the ball, and anyone knew where the ball would end up, the replay showed Ronaldo was already anticipating the ball to end up in an area and prepare himself to react. Most strikers only seem to react after Greenwood flicked the ball. Cavani and Greenwood were in the pitch, but ultimately it was Ronaldo that was there to deliver the goods.

The only way Cavani and Greenwood would score the same amount of goals as Ronaldo is if Ole played a different style. One might argue that would be possible if Robaldo wasn't there. But, I doubt it based on Ole's record. Put Cavani up front instead of Ronaldo, I imagine Ole would have tried to play the same way. I love Cavani, but personally I don't think he is a better No9 than Ronaldo, so we'd still have been poor. It is not like the team are creating loads of chances.

City and Liverpool are effective pressing teams. I doubt they would suddenly go downhill if they had Ronaldo up.front.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's the greatest player in the history of the game. But that's another debate.

What I'm saying is that we're not as good as we were last season. The only difference in the side, Ronaldo. He's 36 and has his moments of brilliance. He doesnt work as hard as Cavani / Greenwood does off the ball and you need that to be a top side. We've adapted the team to fit one player at the expense of a few others. I don't think we'll finish 2nd this season.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Don't get me wrong, I think he's the greatest player in the history of the game. But that's another debate.

What I'm saying is that we're not as good as we were last season. The only difference in the side, Ronaldo. We've adapted the team to fit one player at the expense of a few others. I don't think we'll finish 2nd this season.

Apart from actually winning the PL does it really matter if you finish 2,3 or 4 so long as you qualify for the CL?

Yes you finished 2nd last year, but it was with a points total that wouldn’t of made top 4 in some previous seasons.

As an outsider I’d suggest you have a better stronger squad than last year, which hasn’t yet come together, and it’s still very early in the season.

 

[Junior]

Apart from actually winning the PL does it really matter if you finish 2,3 or 4 so long as you qualify for the CL?

Yes you finished 2nd last year, but it was with a points total that wouldn’t of made top 4 in some previous seasons.

As an outsider I’d suggest you have a better stronger squad than last year, which hasn’t yet come together, and it’s still very early in the season.

See what you're saying mate but what matters is how well we play and the work rate of the eleven player on the pitch. We may have a stronger squad, but, having seen many games at OT this season and last, we are a shadow of the team we were last season.

 

[Bdill93]

Apart from actually winning the PL does it really matter if you finish 2,3 or 4 so long as you qualify for the CL?

Yes you finished 2nd last year, but it was with a points total that wouldn’t of made top 4 in some previous seasons.

As an outsider I’d suggest you have a better stronger squad than last year, which hasn’t yet come together, and it’s still very early in the season.

United only finished second last year because Liverpool were broken with injuries and Chelsea had a so/so league campaign. They had a brilliant away record in a season with no fans, it was all very strange - but they didnt play better football than the year previous in my opinion.

The United squad is way stronger this season (Sancho, Varane and RONALDO!!!!) - but so are Liverpool and Cheslea - and frankly they just have better managers and players/ squad depth than united do too.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

See what you're saying mate but what matters is how well we play and the work rate of the eleven player on the pitch. We may have a stronger squad, but, having seen many games at OT this season and last, we are a shadow of the team we were last season.

I’m not disagreeing mate, just don’t think Utd are not pas bad as some making out, there’s a long way to go this season and at the end of it hindsight may of made spot on or…

 

[Deleted member 16999]

United only finished second last year because Liverpool were broken with injuries and Chelsea had a so/so league campaign. They had a brilliant away record in a season with no fans, it was all very strange - but they didnt play better football than the year previous in my opinion.

The United squad is way stronger this season (Sancho, Varane and RONALDO!!!!) - but so are Liverpool and Cheslea - and frankly they just have better managers and players/ squad depth than united do too.

Agree on the better managers, not sure on the squad depths, it’s very confusing when you compare squads and what could be.

Given a choice of taken 2nd XI players from Utd, City, LPool and Chelsea, Utd would give you more quality to choose from.

 

[Bdill93]

Agree on the better managers, not sure on the squad depths, it’s very confusing when you compare squads and what could be.

Given a choice of taken 2nd XI players from Utd, City, LPool and Chelsea, Utd would give you more quality to choose from.

Its a matter of opinions but I beg to differ. Half your second team wouldnt get in a mid table side. You have plenty of forwards - thats it....

 

[Swango1980]

Don't get me wrong, I think he's the greatest player in the history of the game. But that's another debate.

What I'm saying is that we're not as good as we were last season. The only difference in the side, Ronaldo. He's 36 and has his moments of brilliance. He doesnt work as hard as Cavani / Greenwood does off the ball and you need that to be a top side. We've adapted the team to fit one player at the expense of a few others. I don't think we'll finish 2nd this season.

I think 2nd probably flattered us last season to some degree. It is a bit like a round of golf. Sometimes you go out and you just don't feel like you are playing great, yet finish with 36 points. You feel that is about as good as you'd score that day, and could have been much worse. Other times you finish with 36 and you are devastated, as you think it would have been so easy to shoot 40+ if it wasn't for some silly errors, bad luck. The first scenario is how I class man Utd last season. Credit to them, they came back so many times from losing positions, but to rely on that all the time is dangerous. In golf it is great if we sink 5 or 6 6 footers in a round to build a score, but it is not something you can guarantee will work out for you in the next round.

Performance wise, I'm struggling to see a large drop in performance from last season. We've been dire for long periods this season, but the same was true last season. As a result of this form last season, a central defender, defensive midfielder and striker were widely acknowledged to be top transfer targets by most. We got the centre back, but not the midfielder. We got Sancho, as expected. Although I was always unsure about that signing. Hoped he'd be a great addition, but with the likes of Rashford, Martial, James (at the time), Greenwood and sometimes Pogba able to play in wide positions, I felt it was always going to lead to one or 2 players losing out on game time compared to last season.

Had we bought Kane or Haaland, I think few would blame them for weakening the team. I suspect we'd still have begged Cavani to stay, and rightfully so in my opinion. It is all very well saying Ronaldo does not work, yet at Spurs Kane is getting Lambasted and criticised for not staying in and around the penalty spot at all times. Ronaldo is scoring goals, important ones as well, in a team that is not exactly creating many guilt edge opportunities. He does run however, I've seen him defending his own penalty area at times. But, in terms of charging down opposition defenders, it is all very well saying we need a striker to do that, but it is pointless when his team mates around him don't do it. As I said, stick him up front for City, I'm positive they'd still be able to close the opposition down. They could probably do it, even if Ronaldo decided to set up camp in the opposition penalty area.

The big problem is that Ole and his management team just do not know how to get the best out of the players in the squad. Holding on to certain players for too long has also caused problems, with Ole struggling to keep them all happy, especially the attacking players. Mind you, watching Bailly's performance this week, despite injuries, I wonder how unlucky he feels he has been having never really been given a good run out in the 1st 11.

 

[pokerjoke]

Hang on, didnt you say that United had a title winning team just a few months ago.

You've never been the biggest club in the world, unless you've spelt Real Madrid wrong.

They have got a title winning team however there are many reasons we are not looking that way right now.
If and it’s a big if players were playing to their full potential and Ole was getting the best out of these players,yes I honestly believe we had a chance.
Leicester showed you don’t need the best players but you need players playing as one team to its full potential.

I think most of us here that talk football can see Utds failings.
Apparently if Klopp or Pep were managing these players we would be right up there competing.

Consistency is what we need,players and performances,but we are not getting it right now.
However we could win 10 on the bounce and sail right past you

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Its a matter of opinions but I beg to differ. Half your second team wouldnt get in a mid table side. You have plenty of forwards - thats it....

I’m an Everton fan??

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Its a matter of opinions but I beg to differ. Half your second team wouldnt get in a mid table side. You have plenty of forwards - thats it....

Not sure they have:
1.David De Gea
2. Victor Lindelof
3. Wan-Bisakka
4. Shaw
5. Harry Maguire
6. Paul Pogba
7. Cristiano Ronaldo
8. Juan Mata
9. Anthony Martial
10. Marcus Rashford
11. Mason Greenwood

Henderson
Bailly
Jones
Jesse Lingard
Fred
Bruno Fernandes
Raphael Varane
Diogo Dalot
Edinson Cavani
Jadon Sancho
Scott McTominay


Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek

Mix and match how you like, no way has the other 3 teams that depth.

 

[Bdill93]

Not sure they have:
1.David De Gea
2. Victor Lindelof
3. Wan-Bisakka
4. Shaw
5. Harry Maguire
6. Paul Pogba
7. Cristiano Ronaldo
8. Juan Mata
9. Anthony Martial
10. Marcus Rashford
11. Mason Greenwood

Henderson
Bailly
Jones
Jesse Lingard
Fred
Bruno Fernandes
Raphael Varane
Diogo Dalot
Edinson Cavani
Jadon Sancho
Scott McTominay


Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek

Mix and match how you like, no way has the other 3 teams that depth.

Weird first 11 you chose

Theres so many old high earning low caliber players there it hurts. These are not top 4 players in 2021. Overrated squad.

Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek - although unproven...
Scott McTominay (I am a fan but not there really)
Diogo Dalot
Bailly
Jones
Victor Lindelof
Juan Mata
Anthony Martial
Fred

It's Manchester United... not Spurs. Squad full of garbage.

How many of the above get into Evertons team?

 

[nickjdavis]

The red would not have been for that foul. Apparently he made an offensive gesture to the ref. Not sure he did (Walten said he did), I think it was just for ignoring the ref

I actually think all he did was to put his thumb up!!!...I don't know if you can give someone the thumbs up in a sarcastic manner or not

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Weird first 11 you chose

Theres so many old high earning low caliber players there it hurts. These are not top 4 players in 2021. Overrated squad.

Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek - although unproven...
Scott McTominay (I am a fan but not there really)
Diogo Dalot
Bailly
Jones
Victor Lindelof
Juan Mata
Anthony Martial
Fred

It's Manchester United... not Spurs. Squad full of garbage.

How many of the above get into Evertons team?

I'll take Van de Beek please. No thanks to the rest .

That adds up to a lot of wages for very little

 

[Neilds]

Not sure they have:
1.David De Gea
2. Victor Lindelof
3. Wan-Bisakka
4. Shaw
5. Harry Maguire
6. Paul Pogba
7. Cristiano Ronaldo
8. Juan Mata
9. Anthony Martial
10. Marcus Rashford
11. Mason Greenwood

Henderson
Bailly
Jones
Jesse Lingard
Fred
Bruno Fernandes
Raphael Varane
Diogo Dalot
Edinson Cavani
Jadon Sancho
Scott McTominay


Tom Heaton
Alex Telles
Nemanja Matic
Donny van de Beek

Mix and match how you like, no way has the other 3 teams that depth.

You can have all the depth you like, but if they can't play as a team then you won't get very far - as they have proved many a time this season!