The Footie Thread

[hairball_89]

Yes we rate him and I would say highly rate him.
He’s obviously still very young and will undoubtedly improve.
Hasn’t really been the same since his bad back last year and I certainly don’t know if that’s the reason.
One thing I would say is I wouldn’t like to see him at any of the other top 5 clubs.
I also think he’s better straight through the middle rather than out left.
Needs to start getting 2 or 3 goals on a regular basis rather than the odd 1 here and there.

This bit jumps out... I'd bloody love him at Anfield. Agree about him through the middle too. Get him in the area and he's deadly when on form. Cracking player.

And I'm annoyed he'll be joined by Sancho too.

 

[Kellfire]

I think a couple a changes to the starting line up from Sunday for the world cup would reep serious rewards

Pickford defo

Back 3 of Gomez maigure and stones

Wing backs of TAA and saka

Central midfield of rice and Phillips

Front 3. Grealish, sterling, Kane

Now those changes at wing back suddenly look far more attacking almost wingers who can defend

You’d drop Shaw? Baffling.

 

[sunshine]

wingers who can defend

TAA can defend?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Bellingham for Phillips would be my choice. I thought Phillips had a blinding tournament but he's very limited with the ball, Rice is only a smidge better mind.

Yep agree - Bellingham is a superb player , Phillips did well but can see him filtering away now into club football

Rice - unsure about him , has lots of energy and gets about the pitch just seems to be lacking a touch on the ball - does everything decent but nothing to scare teams - wonder if he will end up being a better CB

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Full backs these days are better than many of the top wingers from yesteryear.

I'd be surprised if either Phillips or Rice were replaced with anyone if they continue playing the way they have. Especially if Rice moves to a big club.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

TAA can defend?

Yes he can - he is a very good defender

 

[KenL]

I thought Sterling was really poor in the final. Am I wrong?

 

[Tashyboy]

I don't see Southgate as the limiting factor. Fantastic achievement to get to the final but not enough British players playing in the British leagues at the moment.
Having said that, when the likes of Liverpool (Notts Forest) were dominating Europe, England were not great.
So, in summary, I have no idea.?

In all honesty Ken, going back years when Forest, Liverpool etc were in there prime. The manager should of been Cloughie. He would of got more out of the players.
My lad has been talking to a pal he met in Australia he is from Holland.Big Ajax fan. He was saying how a lot of people he has spoken to in Holland were disappointed with England. Apparently they raved about the pace and skill of Sterling, Sancho, Rashford, Bellingham and that kid from City. He had never heard of Salah. But hardly saw it.
Ave asked me lad two questions.
1, would Mancini have got more out of the England squad.
2,would you have Southgate at City.

 

[Orikoru]

There is a massive flaw in your argument: England does not have Messi, de Bruyne and Ronaldo up front. I've not seen much of Sancho because I don't watch German football, but he hasn't shone for England the way Saka and Sterling have. Do you think Man U would have spent £70m on him if he was Norwegian? Foden looks neat and tidy but he's not Pedri. Don't fall for the media hype - use your eyes to judge how good the players really are.

Southgate has to work with what he's got.

Lose, learn, win.... this is exactly what Southgate has done. Over the last 20 years, the teams that get to the finals of a world cup or euros are typically teams that can grind out a 1-0 win. Giving talented players carte blanche to play exciting attacking football is rarely successful, look at Netherlands and Belgium.

The England team of the 2000s tried to be exciting and always fell over when they came up against a good team in the knock out stage. There's no point scoring 3 or 4 against Croatia and Czech Rep in the group stage if you then lose against Germany. Southgate oversaw a 2-0 win against Germany - the first time we have beaten a proper top tier side in a KO match since 1996. That is major progress.

I thought England have definitely improved since that world cup semi in 2018. Italy were just better. No managerial lesson from Mancini, just better players on a roll. But this is a young England team and they will improve.

I'm with you on this - I don't think you can go all guns blazing in international football. How did Kevin Keegan do as England manager for example? I thought Southgate's approach was spot on all the way through. Coast through the groups, defeated Germany with a good tactical display, brushed Ukraine aside, came from behind against Denmark showing good resiliency. There was not much to moan about until the latter stages of the final against a very good side, where I think he got the extra time and penalties totally wrong, but hey, he's human.

 

[harpo_72]

Sorry I will have to disagree

Italy don’t have the likes of Messi etc up front yet they were able to get the best out of their squad

Sancho can’t shine for England when he is sat on the bench but he has played at the highest level in the CL and shown how good a player he is

Southgate had a squad loaded with attacking talent yet started the final with 8 defensive players - they caught Italy on the break and scored earlier , they then controlled the game for a short period until Mancini made some tactical changes with the front three - Southgate didn’t react to that or couldn’t react.

Many other managers made changes early -England had Kane , Sterling , Mount totally out of the game - they offered nothing from 30 mins onwards - when italy were on top he just sat there and watched them dominate , then he made a change that wasn’t going to get them moving forward- after 60 mins and when Italy lost Chiesa they sat a bit deeper , that was the time for Southgate to look to his bench - not be afraid to replace Kane or Sterling - it doesn’t matter what they have done in previous games but they were out of it but he just seems afraid to take either of them off - and that’s to the team detriment

And then to bring players just for penalties - madness imo

England had a great chance to win the whole thing and in the end you could say they bottled it because the manager was afraid to go outside his comfort zone

It’s an achievement to get to the final and that’s what the record books say but I don’t see them getting another chance again with Southgate in charge , the last two tournaments have been virtually handed to them on a plate and they dropped it.

Mancini is a manager who has his ability at the highest level - Southgate hasnt and imo it shows - the difference between the two teams on Sunday was the tactics employed by the Italians

I think you have a point, but GS has humility and will learn and develop as a manager. You don’t go and win a final first time unless you are extremely lucky. I hope we see more top performances a progressive build up to domination on the world stage.. we have the players we need to expose them to the big occasions and that could be said about the manager .. don’t change him not now let him build up a head of steam and let the whole group develop as a team … and let’s basque in their success

 

[Tashyboy]

I'm with you on this - I don't think you can go all guns blazing in international football. How did Kevin Keegan do as England manager for example? I thought Southgate's approach was spot on all the way through. Coast through the groups, defeated Germany with a good tactical display, brushed Ukraine aside, came from behind against Denmark showing good resiliency. There was not much to moan about until the latter stages of the final against a very good side, where I think he got the extra time and penalties totally wrong, but hey, he's human.

Playing Walker, Stones, Maguire and Shaw as a back four with anyone of three good defensive midfielders in front is nowhere near all guns blazing.
All the best teams I have ever seen be it City, Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. Brazil, Holland France and the latest Italy team have one thing in common. They are balanced. Could anyone actually have a discussion saying that England were. What with 6 and 7 defensive players in a team.
I would go so far to say that Southgate at international level is the same as Mourinho at Spurs and Utd.They are not getting the best out of there teams. Southgate is a far more likeable person though.

 

[PJ87]

You’d drop Shaw? Baffling.

For a more attacking option of saka there yes

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I thought Sterling was really poor in the final. Am I wrong?

No. Good tournament but was anonymous in the final and should have been subbed off. Same as Kane imo.

 

[Orikoru]

Yep agree - Bellingham is a superb player , Phillips did well but can see him filtering away now into club football

Rice - unsure about him , has lots of energy and gets about the pitch just seems to be lacking a touch on the ball - does everything decent but nothing to scare teams - wonder if he will end up being a better CB

I think Rice is really underrated for the technical side of his game, because he perhaps doesn't always show it. He prefers to keep things simple as a holding player, but if he has to go past players or pick someone out over distance, he is capable of it. Maybe a lack of confidence on the ball, or as I say, just a willingness to keep things simple in his defensive role. I think if and when he does go to a big club, we'll see just how good he can be.

 

[Orikoru]

Playing Walker, Stones, Maguire and Shaw as a back four with anyone of three good defensive midfielders in front is nowhere near all guns blazing.
All the best teams I have ever seen be it City, Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. Brazil, Holland France and the latest Italy team have one thing in common. They are balanced. Could anyone actually have a discussion saying that England were. What with 6 and 7 defensive players in a team.
I would go so far to say that Southgate at international level is the same as Mourinho at Spurs and Utd.They are not getting the best out of there teams. Southgate is a far more likeable person though.

It looked balanced enough to me when one wing back assisted the other one for a goal after 2 minutes. Classic revisionism just because we didn't win. This isn't a jab at you, but it seems like a lot of people want him to play Grealish, Foden, Mount, Sancho and Rashford all at once, it's just not possible.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It looked balanced enough to me when one wing back assisted the other one for a goal after 2 minutes. Classic revisionism just because we didn't win. This isn't a jab at you, but it seems like a lot of people want him to play Grealish, Foden, Mount, Sancho and Rashford all at once, it's just not possible.

The issue is he only played one and that one was annoymous throughout the whole game yet still stayed on - same with Kane and Sterling

There was no need to play a back 5

Match up Italy

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Rice
Phillips/Henderson
Mount/Foden

Sancho/Saka
Kane
Sterling

that line up will provide a solid backline with protection but also provide width and balance in the front 3/4

Sterling was isolated because Kane kept dropping deep because there was nothing in the middle in front of rice and Phillips

It’s the set up that Italy did and it worked -

 

[Tashyboy]

It looked balanced enough to me when one wing back assisted the other one for a goal after 2 minutes. Classic revisionism just because we didn't win. This isn't a jab at you, but it seems like a lot of people want him to play Grealish, Foden, Mount, Sancho and Rashford all at once, it's just not possible.

But that then for me over balances it the other way in a sense of its to forward based.. Moving forward from this tourname t. Southgate has to look at another style of play. If he sticks with 6 and 7 defensive players. Opponents will have a plan of how to break that down. He needs a good plan B and he needs to be more proactive not reactive During games.

 

[Orikoru]

The issue is he only played one and that one was annoymous throughout the whole game yet still stayed on - same with Kane and Sterling

There was no need to play a back 5

Match up Italy

Pickford

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw

Rice
Phillips/Henderson
Mount/Foden

Sancho/Saka
Kane
Sterling

that line up will provide a solid backline with protection but also provide width and balance in the front 3/4

Sterling was isolated because Kane kept dropping deep because there was nothing in the middle in front of rice and Phillips

It’s the set up that Italy did and it worked -

You don't know that would have been any better, you're just speculating. Given that our goal was one wing back to the other, we might not have scored at all using that line-up. We might have conceded two before half time with Walker out on the right instead of covering the centre backs. The fact is we have no idea. Southgate has been careful to ensure the squad are well trained in both formations and flexible, so really one should work just as well as the other.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You don't know that would have been any better, you're just speculating. Given that our goal was one wing back to the other, we might not have scored at all using that line-up. We might have conceded two before half time with Walker out on the right instead of covering the centre backs. The fact is we have no idea. Southgate has been careful to ensure the squad are well trained in both formations and flexible, so really one should work just as well as the other.

The point is he didn’t try anything different during the game - he didn’t adjust his tactics , he either froze or was scared to do something different- Mancini made some changes to the way front three set up and it worked it got them into the game and Southgate didn’t react

If playing 8 defensive players had ended up winning the trophy then you can say he got it right , but they didn’t win -it didn’t work - just like in the World Cup there was a lack of ability to get back into the game once the top opposition got on top.

If many could see the issue during the game why couldn’t he or at least try something to get back into it

Southgate didn’t have to go all out but he clearly needed to find a way to get the front three in the game because they were shocking - Kane not one single touch inside the box

 

[Orikoru]

The point is he didn’t try anything different during the game - he didn’t adjust his tactics , he either froze or was scared to do something different- Mancini made some changes to the way front three set up and it worked it got them into the game and Southgate didn’t react

If playing 8 defensive players had ended up winning the trophy then you can say he got it right , but they didn’t win -it didn’t work - just like in the World Cup there was a lack of ability to get back into the game once the top opposition got on top.

If many could see the issue during the game why couldn’t he or at least try something to get back into it

Southgate didn’t have to go all out but he clearly needed to find a way to get the front three in the game because they were shocking - Kane not one single touch inside the box

I do agree that all the changes were too late. Especially bringing on two players to take a penalty having not touched the ball, that was dumb. Just bring them on for extra time and try and win it before penalties surely? You still have to say it's the closest we've come in 55 years, and I think we'll only improve at the World Cup.