The Footie Thread

[PJ87]

I'm really bemused by all the talk around England's penalty takers.

Why bring on 2 players to take a penalty? It was blatantly obvious they had been practising for weeks, and had a clear ranking order in terms of who was going to take penalties and in what order. Rashford and Sancho were obviously two of the best and introduced with a clear objective. This can't have been a surprise - I'm sure Southgate discussed with the squad before the knock outs that this would happen.

Why give the last penalty to Saka? Again, I'm sure they rehearsed this scenario many times and Saka was the most successful / consistent under pressure. Sometimes youth brings fearlessness.

The players that didn't take a penalty did not bottle it, they just weren't in the top 5.

OK - so the 3 misses were poor penalties. Nerves got the better of them, but I'm sure the squad and management team had done all they could to prepare. This was the most prepared England team / squad I have seen.

In my eyes Southgate and the England squad have really stepped up to the plate and delivered in this tournament. So many England teams from the last 20 years would have tripped up against Germany or Denmark. This is the first time England has been a genuine contender since 1996 (the hot air about the Golden generation was just media hype), and I'm excited about their prospects at the WC.

Imo it's 1 miss and 2 saves. We give zero credit to the keeper even tho if that was Pickford we would be saying great save

2 saves but one awful miss

1 because of the timing of it. Had chance to go ahead in shoot out

2 because he had done the hard bit and send keeper wrong way

3 because he missed an open goal

 

[PJ87]

Sorry but as a former keeper, only 1 England penalty was missed as 2 were saved!

Snap it seems lol

 

[Deleted member 15344]

He has right to his opinion. As does everyone else. That doesn't mean hes right the rest of us have to give any credit to his opinion. Which was pretty much a load of rambling nonsense.

I don’t think he has stated that he is “right” - it’s just his opinion at the end of the day and it’s an opinion that will be shared by others , that’s how it goes these days

There will be many England fans who don’t see things much different - getting to a final is a great achievement, but the route was variable and it was like being the host nation , and when they faced that top team they were found wanting when the questions were asked.

It will all depend on what angle you want to see it from - bottling it when get to a final , or being the plucky loser again

you look at the two squads and compare the two - it’s fair to say for some that Englands looked stronger but Italy had the better proven manager.

Southgate will continue into the World Cup - the South American teams aren’t too strong , it’s a great chance once again but can many see any changes to what happened in these Euros ? 8 defensive players in the team ?‍ - I don’t think Southgate has the tactical nous to do it but we will see

 

[Lord Tyrion]

LinkedIn is getting more and more like Facebook

I don't really use it to be honest. Like most I suppose I started with good intentions and then trailed off. If it has gone down that route then that is pretty poor. Putting your personal views out on a business platform is questionable imo.

 

[Fade and Die]

I don’t think he has stated that he is “right” - it’s just his opinion at the end of the day and it’s an opinion that will be shared by others , that’s how it goes these days

There will be many England fans who don’t see things much different - getting to a final is a great achievement, but the route was variable and it was like being the host nation , and when they faced that top team they were found wanting when the questions were asked.

It will all depend on what angle you want to see it from - bottling it when get to a final , or being the plucky loser again

you look at the two squads and compare the two - it’s fair to say for some that Englands looked stronger but Italy had the better proven manager.

Southgate will continue into the World Cup - the South American teams aren’t too strong , it’s a great chance once again but can many see any changes to what happened in these Euros ? 8 defensive players in the team ?‍ - I don’t think Southgate has the tactical nous to do it but we will see

Agree with your last few lines, I think Southgate did most things in the tournament well. Where he is clearly lacking is in tactical shrewdness when things start to change. His responses to Mancini's changes of personnel and formation changes were stilted. As for the football, It’s not an enjoyable watch and I wouldn’t pay to watch it every week. Keeper, back 5 and 2 holding midfielders? Roy Hodgson and Sam Allardyce would have been slated.

 

[Orikoru]

I'm really bemused by all the talk around England's penalty takers.

Why bring on 2 players to take a penalty? It was blatantly obvious they had been practising for weeks, and had a clear ranking order in terms of who was going to take penalties and in what order. Rashford and Sancho were obviously two of the best and introduced with a clear objective. This can't have been a surprise - I'm sure Southgate discussed with the squad before the knock outs that this would happen.

Why give the last penalty to Saka? Again, I'm sure they rehearsed this scenario many times and Saka was the most successful / consistent under pressure. Sometimes youth brings fearlessness.

The players that didn't take a penalty did not bottle it, they just weren't in the top 5.

OK - so the 3 misses were poor penalties. Nerves got the better of them, but I'm sure the squad and management team had done all they could to prepare. This was the most prepared England team / squad I have seen.

In my eyes Southgate and the England squad have really stepped up to the plate and delivered in this tournament. So many England teams from the last 20 years would have tripped up against Germany or Denmark. This is the first time England has been a genuine contender since 1996 (the hot air about the Golden generation was just media hype), and I'm excited about their prospects at the WC.

My view was simply that scoring penalties in training is very VERY different to scoring one in a tournament final when you've just come on and not kicked a ball. It seemed a really bizarre move to me. And generally it seems sensible to put a mature experienced player on the crucial 5th penalty rather than a kid. But why not bring Rashford and Sancho on ten mins earlier? Try and win the game with them having an impact, if it doesn't work they are still able to take penalties, only they're not going into the shootout completely cold.

It's the only thing Southgate got wrong all tournament though. These things happen.

 

[sunshine]

Sorry but as a former keeper, only 1 England penalty was missed as 2 were saved!

Fair point!
The 2 saved penalties were weak though - too close to the keeper and at a good height to be saved.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I don't really use it to be honest. Like most I suppose I started with good intentions and then trailed off. If it has gone down that route then that is pretty poor. Putting your personal views out on a business platform is questionable imo.

What it has done is highlight people with questionable morals, so we can avoid doing business with them.

 

[Slime]

There will be many England fans who don’t see things much different - getting to a final is a great achievement, but the route was variable and it was like being the host nation , and when they faced that top team they were found wanting when the questions were asked.

It will all depend on what angle you want to see it from - bottling it when get to a final , or being the plucky loser again

Or going through a tournament undefeated ......................... that's my angle.

 

[Golfmmad]

Or going through a tournament undefeated ......................... that's my angle.

And mine is:
We lost a penalty shoot out- just!

 

[Rlburnside]

M

Or going through a tournament undefeated ......................... that's my angle.

My angle is …… we lost again , and the reason why is instead of trying to be positive and try to win the game we tried to defend a 1 goal lead sat back and handed the game to Italy.

Not for the first time this has happened , we have a history of not using our creative players and this IMO is the reason we haven’t won anything for over 50 years, and will sadly not change with the current set up.

 

[Orikoru]

M

My angle is …… we lost again , and the reason why is instead of trying to be positive and try to win the game we tried to defend a 1 goal lead sat back and handed the game to Italy.

Not for the first time this has happened , we have a history of not using our creative players and this IMO is the reason we haven’t won anything for over 50 years, and will sadly not change with the current set up.

Hang on, I'm getting deja vu to Mourinho's Spurs here...

 

[Rlburnside]

Hang on, I'm getting deja vu to Mourinho's Spurs here...

Sadly true, you’re to young to remember Tony Currie one of the best players of his generation never played enough for England and that has been the theme for England since 1970.

Every England manager in Major finals since Ramsey with the exception of Venables has gone out with the intention of not losing a game instead of trying to win the game.

History clearly tells us this doesn’t work , Southgate will take us to the World Cup with the same tactics and is doomed to fail.

 

[clubchamp98]

M

My angle is …… we lost again , and the reason why is instead of trying to be positive and try to win the game we tried to defend a 1 goal lead sat back and handed the game to Italy.

Not for the first time this has happened , we have a history of not using our creative players and this IMO is the reason we haven’t won anything for over 50 years, and will sadly not change with the current set up.

Yes this.
We all knew our big talent was going forward.
We knew our weakness was in defence, alledgely.
But we never seen most of the young talent.
But set out not to lose.
Can’t see GS changing his philosophy.

 

[Tashyboy]

M

My angle is …… we lost again , and the reason why is instead of trying to be positive and try to win the game we tried to defend a 1 goal lead sat back and handed the game to Italy.

Not for the first time this has happened , we have a history of not using our creative players and this IMO is the reason we haven’t won anything for over 50 years, and will sadly not change with the current set up.

?to the above.

There’s an old saying Lose, Learn, Win.

We lost v Croatia in the World Cup Semi final, we never learned, we lost again.
Watching England v Italy was like watching the world cup semi again.
My grief is that GS has set out his stall in how he now wants to set out his teams. The teams we beat, you would expect us to beat. GS was handed a managerial lesson by Roberto Mancini.

 

[Slime]

Can you two please take it to PM rather than risk ruining this thread?

Thanks.

 

[PJ87]

Can you two please take it to PM rather than risk ruining this thread?

Thanks.

My inbox is always open unless people want to just continue to try and be clever publically whilst chicken to say anything privately

 

[Rlburnside]

?to the above.

There’s an old saying Lose, Learn, Win.

We lost v Croatia in the World Cup Semi final, we never learned, we lost again.
Watching England v Italy was like watching the world cup semi again.
My grief is that GS has set out his stall in how he now wants to set out his teams. The teams we beat, you would expect us to beat. GS was handed a managerial lesson by Roberto Mancini.

Your right Tashy , remember when the Dutch transformed football with very fluid attacking style the FA sent over officials and coaches to study the Dutch system,nothing changed , it’s not ‘the English way’ we were told.

We carried on stifling our creative players up until this day, the FA deserve some credit with the structure they have put in place now but until we change our mentality we can’t progress.

With the amount of young talent available to England now would be the ideal time to change.

 

[PJ87]

Your right Tashy , remember when the Dutch transformed football with very fluid attacking style the FA sent over officials and coaches to study the Dutch system,nothing changed , it’s not ‘the English way’ we were told.

We carried on stifling our creative players up until this day, the FA deserve some credit with the structure they have put in place now but until we change our mentality we can’t progress.

With the amount of young talent available to England now would be the ideal time to change.

It's drummed into the fans aswell

We rate players who run about a lot .. players get slated if they don't run ...ozil was a fine example. One of the most creative and clever players to grace the league.. slated because he didn't run about a lot

 

[larmen]

Your right Tashy , remember when the Dutch transformed football with very fluid attacking style the FA sent over officials and coaches to study the Dutch system,nothing changed , it’s not ‘the English way’ we were told.

We carried on stifling our creative players up until this day, the FA deserve some credit with the structure they have put in place now but until we change our mentality we can’t progress.

With the amount of young talent available to England now would be the ideal time to change.

Germany also looked at Holland at the time. My team even got a Dutch coach, Aad de Moos, but we didn’t have the players to make it work. 4 at the back with no sweeper, it was impossible with players coming out of the classic system. But we started the academy due to it.

France where next, they were awful in the 90s, but they turned it around for the WC and EC.
Germany then made plenty of finals and won a World Cup as well before being bad again.


That’s the weird thing. All those countries, they break the beta, they rise, and then instead of getting even better they get worse again.