The Footie Thread

[nickjdavis]

If Howe learns nothing else from tonight it should be that he needs to find a top world class goalkeeper. A sinlge moment of stupidity (and its something that Pope has shown before...indeed he did it on Saturday and was lucky not to be chipped by Haarland....he did it a couple of seasons ago and got sent off v Liverpool and there have been other occasions where his decision making when leaving his line has been utterly suspect) gave Marseilles hope they really shouldnt have had.

Without the encouragement of a goal after 26 seconds of the second half it is quite likely that the second wouldn't have come as early as it did. Hurts me to say it but Pope's days must surely be numbered. Trafford will be a huge improvement and if he's not getting game time at Man City he should really be looking to advance his pitch time elsewhere.

A bit more clinical finishing from Newcastle and we could have come away with a point (9 shots on target) however Aubameyangs finishing for his two goals was superb. Mason Greenwood looked very good in the first half as well.

Frustrating, but we are still in the top 8 (but probably wont be after tomorrows fixtures).

 

[4LEX]

France
Argentina
Spain

That’s the last two winners of the World Cup and Euros

Add in Brazil

And as I said earlier I reckon Holland and Portugal would beat them now

England don’t beat top teams in tournament football


The highest ranked team they have played in recent years is Senegal - and they lost

France and Spain yes.

Argentina are miles off it. Won the WC but some very dubious decisions in the tournament and pretty much cheated their way to it. Got a lot worse sense too.

Brazil are a mess! No chance.

You say Holland would beat us but we beat them less than 18 months ago in a major tournament. Senegal was a friendly at the end of the season that no one bothered about. Wasn't it played at somewhere like Nottingham? A nothing game.

Portugal I don't think so. A very good team skilled in the dark arts but lacking quality up front without Jota.

 

[Hobbit]

France
Argentina
Spain

That’s the last two winners of the World Cup and Euros

Add in Brazil

And as I said earlier I reckon Holland and Portugal would beat them now

England don’t beat top teams in tournament football


The highest ranked team they have played in recent years is Senegal - and they lost

Wow! England worse than Holland & Portugal? Remind me how many goals england have conceded during qualification’v’ Portugal’s record? Didn’t Portugal lose, in a competitive match, in Dublin? An Irish side that England made look very ordinary. How many goals have Holland conceded in their last 15 matches ‘v’ the number of goals England have conceded?

Every single top team has an easy ride through qualification because of seedings. Most top teams don’t face top opposition till the latter stages of major tournaments.

Are they ‘worth’ their 4th place ranking? There’s a hefty dose of subjectivity in seedings when comparing with other regions, e.g. South America & Asia Pacific. But beyond that, rankings are based on performance. Are they worth better than 4th? I doubt it. Are they worse than 6th? The last x years suggests 4th isn’t a bad shout.

 

[Pin-seeker]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1993414911595082084

 

[Swango1980]

Wow! England worse than Holland & Portugal? Remind me how many goals england have conceded during qualification’v’ Portugal’s record? Didn’t Portugal lose, in a competitive match, in Dublin? An Irish side that England made look very ordinary. How many goals have Holland conceded in their last 15 matches ‘v’ the number of goals England have conceded?

Every single top team has an easy ride through qualification because of seedings. Most top teams don’t face top opposition till the latter stages of major tournaments.

Are they ‘worth’ their 4th place ranking? There’s a hefty dose of subjectivity in seedings when comparing with other regions, e.g. South America & Asia Pacific. But beyond that, rankings are based on performance. Are they worth better than 4th? I doubt it. Are they worse than 6th? The last x years suggests 4th isn’t a bad shout.

It's funny how arguments can be adapted when it suits an agenda.

When discussing Ronaldo still playing for Portugal, it is explained how badly that impacts them, so much poorer with him.

But, when trying to justify England not being all that good, suddenly Portugal are better than them. Despite having a worse qualification record and not even getting to a major semi final since 2016 I believe

 

[irip]

International football at the moment has no real standout teams for me.

I think we are the equal of anyone out there but I would put probably 8 teams as very closely matched and tough to pick a winner if any of them played each other.

I think the kick off times and weather in the next World Cup are going to be significant depending on the draw that each team gets.

Plus add in whoever FIFA would like to win this time (allegedly) and I think you could pick a name out of a hat for about 12 different teams.

I would say we are one of the 12.

For those saying England have no chance want to offer me 100/1?

 

[Pin-seeker]

International football at the moment has no real standout teams for me.

I think we are the equal of anyone out there but I would put probably 8 teams as very closely matched and tough to pick a winner if any of them played each other.

I think the kick off times and weather in the next World Cup are going to be significant depending on the draw that each team gets.

Plus add in whoever FIFA would like to win this time (allegedly) and I think you could pick a name out of a hat for about 12 different teams.

I would say we are one of the 12.

For those saying England have no chance want to offer me 100/1?

Not only at international level.
How many great teams are there in the champions league compared to years past?
Is there a great team in the prem at the minute?
Liverpool won it last year with a pretty average team.
Arsenal top at the minute,they’re nothing special imo.

 

[Neilds]

Related to sporting integrity...

World Cup 2026: Fifa to keep top seeds apart in draw

The top four seeded countries will not be able to meet each other until the semi-finals of next year's World Cup for the first time in the tournament's history.

www.bbc.co.uk

No difference to how they do the tennis - and probably lots of other sports. What is the point of seeding teams/players if they are going to knock each other out in the first round?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Wow! England worse than Holland & Portugal? Remind me how many goals england have conceded during qualification’v’ Portugal’s record? Didn’t Portugal lose, in a competitive match, in Dublin? An Irish side that England made look very ordinary. How many goals have Holland conceded in their last 15 matches ‘v’ the number of goals England have conceded?

Every single top team has an easy ride through qualification because of seedings. Most top teams don’t face top opposition till the latter stages of major tournaments.

Are they ‘worth’ their 4th place ranking? There’s a hefty dose of subjectivity in seedings when comparing with other regions, e.g. South America & Asia Pacific. But beyond that, rankings are based on performance. Are they worth better than 4th? I doubt it. Are they worse than 6th? The last x years suggests 4th isn’t a bad shout.

There are a few things

It’s not about being “worse” etc as the next team

England for me are not near the likes of France , Spain and Argentina

And when it comes to tournaments they have shown that 9/10 they are found lacking against the better nations

We have seen many times England cruising through the qualifying but the falling down in the tournament

Qualifying is poor these days , the standard teams play against is low - it’s not really a barometer

England have a chance - if it clicks , plays the best team and a bit of luck they have a chance but I expect them to again fall short

 

[Arthur Wedge]

No difference to how they do the tennis - and probably lots of other sports. What is the point of seeding teams/players if they are going to knock each other out in the first round?

They haven’t had seeds before and it’s been fine

They do the draw using the pots and then after that away they go - not having seeds hasn’t affected any previous tournaments

 

[Neilds]

They haven’t had seeds before and it’s been fine

They do the draw using the pots and then after that away they go - not having seeds hasn’t affected any previous tournaments

I would counter that the way they arranged the pots was seeding - they just didn't call it seeding.

 

[Swango1980]

There are a few things

It’s not about being “worse” etc as the next team

England for me are not near the likes of France , Spain and Argentina

And when it comes to tournaments they have shown that 9/10 they are found lacking against the better nations

We have seen many times England cruising through the qualifying but the falling down in the tournament

Qualifying is poor these days , the standard teams play against is low - it’s not really a barometer

England have a chance - if it clicks , plays the best team and a bit of luck they have a chance but I expect them to again fall short

Will that mentality change with a new manager?

England have traditionally become very defensive against top sides. Seem to fear losing rather than be excited about winning. The manager has often looked to set them up to stop the other side scoring, rather than to play on front foot and score.

So, will Tuchel approach games differently to Southgate? Will England be more pro active?

Won't know until we see it I suppose. But England still have quality players. Tuchel may be dealing with Bellingham perfectly. Bellingham is a quality player. Tuchel may be doing what he is doing and saying what he is saying now to ensure that by time the summer comes, Bellingham isn't simply going through the motions, but is pumped up to be the best he can possibly be. And that would be huge for England. Tuchel could be working very hard now to ensure complacency isn't going to be a problem when it matters

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I would counter that the way they arranged the pots was seeding - they just didn't call it seeding.

Which has helped break the groups up but there is lots of dangers of big clubs meeting in the early KO rounds

It’s poor of FIFA but not surprising

Some of best stories of world cups have come from those underrated nations that have had runs to later stages

With the added embarrassment of Ronaldo’s suspension they just aren’t hiding their corruption anymore

 

[irip]

There are a few things

It’s not about being “worse” etc as the next team

England for me are not near the likes of France , Spain and Argentina

And when it comes to tournaments they have shown that 9/10 they are found lacking against the better nations

We have seen many times England cruising through the qualifying but the falling down in the tournament

Qualifying is poor these days , the standard teams play against is low - it’s not really a barometer

England have a chance - if it clicks , plays the best team and a bit of luck they have a chance but I expect them to again fall short

Fair enough Phil,
Will you give me 100/1 on England then?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Fair enough Phil,
Will you give me 100/1 on England then?

I very much doubt you will get 100/1

Prob looking at around 8/9 -1 odds and that might change after the draw

 

[irip]

I very much doubt you will get 100/1

Prob looking at around 8/9 -1 odds and that might change after the draw

That’s with the bookies though.
You are saying England are a long way behind several other nations only decent side we have played is Senegal and we lost.

So my question to you is if you are so sure we have no chance what odds will you give me?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

That’s with the bookies though.
You are saying England are a long way behind several other nations only decent side we have played is Senegal and we lost.

So my question to you is if you are so sure we have no chance what odds will you give me?

I didn’t say England have “no chance”

 

[irip]

I didn’t say England have “no chance”

. Ok you made it very clear you thought they had very little chance though.

It was only a bit of fun Phil to see if you were prepared to offer odds

 

[Swango1980]

That’s with the bookies though.
You are saying England are a long way behind several other nations only decent side we have played is Senegal and we lost.

So my question to you is if you are so sure we have no chance what odds will you give me?

I would confidently say Curacao have no chance to win the World Cup, happy to give you 100/1 on them?

People who say England have "no chance" will generally just be the classic keyboard warrior types. They can type stuff on forums without ever really worrying about damage to their real life credibility, it's only their avatar that might get a bit of a hammering. And if England don't win (even the favourites usually have much less than a 50% chance of winning), they can tell us all "I told you so" for a long time to come.

I'd be surprised if anyone saying England have "no chance" was willing to put their money where their mouth is, and offer you odds better than 10/1, let alone 100/1. In fact, you would probably struggle to get 3/1 or even 2/1 out of them. They'd be much stingier than the bookies, because despite saying England have no chance, they'd suddenly fear losing their money because deep down they know England have a pretty decent chance of winning, relative to other top nations.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

. Ok you made it very clear you thought they had very little chance though.

It was only a bit of fun Phil to see if you were prepared to offer odds

The odds of 8/9-1 seem pretty fair for their chances - if things go well then getting to the later stages opens the door and then who knows

As I said

“
England have a chance - if it clicks , plays the best team and a bit of luck they have a chance but I expect them to again fall short”