The Footie Thread

[Don Barzini]

Those lads have clearly never visited the City Ground.

There's no hot water y'know!

 

[Aztecs27]

There's no hot water y'know!

One day mate, one day.

Maybe they'll splash a few quid to treat us for those cold european nights coming up.

 

[irip]

I just edited my post....because the quality United have bought in - they should be aspiring to be much higher than 15th this season.

I think their forward line is much improved.
They are crying out for a keeper though not just for his ability but the rest of the side having confidence in him,
I think they also lack a real hard old fashioned central midfielder who will put himself about and not afraid to call the other players out on the pitch

 

[Tashyboy]

Those lads have clearly never visited the City Ground.

Joking aside, when I went to watch Take That at the City ground, the toilets very much reminded me of Maine rd

 

[Swango1980]

Them 2 yes I agree, both good players that are proven in the premier league.

What about the other players he has bought though would the new man want

De Light
Dorgu
Ugarte
Yoro
Sesko

That’s 5 off the top of my head, do they join the other 5 or so they can’t seem to currently shift.

They could have a reserve side that cost more than the first team

I would say De Ligt has been one of our best centre backs since he joined. He puts everything on the line. I genuinely don't see the defence being the biggest problem, but the pressure they are put under by the guys in front is incredible. Stick VVD in the Utd defence, I still think he struggles to concede any less goals than we already do.

Dorgu really impresses me with his mobility down the left, but his end product is awful. Young player, so lots to learn. If I was a coach (in my non-expert opinion), I would dedicate 90% of his training to crossing the ball.

Ugarte looked solid when he came in, but now seems to be struggling with the whole in and out of the team scenario. Moving aside to try and get the likes of Bruno, Mainoo and Casemiro in at times.

Yoro, I think he is quality. One game aside (Southampton last season), he looks fantastic to me.

Sesko, he has had one start, and came off the bench twice. Way too early to judge him. More concerning is the complete lack of ability for any of his team mates to actually try and use the striker. We could have prime Alan Shearer up top, and the rest of the team would fail to try and find him.

It's tricky though. There are a load of players I actually like, but it is hard to explain when the sum of their parts produces such awful displays. I'd love to start seeing at least 3 or 4 of the players screaming in each others faces at times, try and wake each other up. I can honestly pictuire the likes of Bruno, Dalot and others giving each other a high 5 and a pat on the back after the game last night, for doing well to get back in the game. Chin up lads, we'll do better next game. Instead they should be swinging punches at each other, and try and find a way to play with more rage, intensity, etc in future games (without crossing boundaries of course)

 

[Orikoru]

If you have a rigid plan, refuse to alter it, but it doesn't work, that's how you look . Mad that someone at that level has that approach.

Exactly the same as Ange, and going just about as well as it did for him.

 

[Tashyboy]

What I don't get is this:

When you watch the best teams play, when in possession, they almost always have an easy pass on. One of your defenders or wing backs is on the ball, I guess Rodri will always make himself an easy pass, if there are no other options up front. And the ball moves fluidly.

With Utd, one of our defenders / wingbacks gets the ball, many many times they literally have nothing on, except for going back to the keeper of centre back. I watched Mainoo and Ugarte when the likes of Dorgu got the ball. They just jog up front towards the attacking players, behind Grimsby players, and are not an option. I shouted so often at Mainoo, "JUST STEP 5 YARDS BACK, AND YOU ARE IN OCEANS OF SPACE TO RECEIVE THE BALL" but he just trots forward. This happens under Amorim, Ten Hag, Solskjaer, etc. It happens under every system we play. It is almost like there is a culture amongst the deeper midfielders that they can't sit back, they need to "attack, attack, attack" with the whole team.

I still think Bruno is the real conundrum. When he plays, he could be playing in one of about 3 positions. Although it doesn't matter, as he just runs where he wants to run. He demands to take responsibility for everything, and I think the rest of the team just give in to his domination. Just try and get the ball to Bruno, then we'll all charge forward and see if he can pick one of us out with a Hollywood pass. Then, on the rare occasions he doesn't play, they almost seem confused as to who is going to lead them. It is like many of them are pawns, and don't know how to take more responsibility on themselves. And when they do, it is almost half hearted. Bruno has been our best player, but I do often think that if he was completely removed from the team, then it would force the players to start fresh. I may be completely wrong of course, there are huge issues within that squad that go well beyond the manager.

One of the biggest Improvements at City is the way players can play out of position but still look comfortable. John Stones for instance. Centre half to centre midfield. Gvardiol ends up in the left wing position. Rico Lewis etc etc.They just look comfortable. It don’t look awkward. When I see Utd. I don’t know if the players are Shackled, playing within them selves. Playing within the system. They just don’t look comfortable.
Don’t get me wrong, there are players there who can and will more than hold their own. But for me the biggest thing that Utd need is a leader. One who is going to lead by example. And preferably a centre midfield leader. And one who is going to get the fans right behind the team.
Unfortunately at the moment the way Utd are on the pitch, teams will have no fear factor in playing against them.
The next few days in the transfer market will be massive for Utd.

 

[Aztecs27]

Joking aside, when I went to watch Take That at the City ground, the toilets very much reminded me of Maine rd

Yea, they're not great. Every single forest fan I know moans about them, and I think the club is aware of them needing an upgrade, but presumably they'll want to do it in line with the ground improvements which are (hopefully) due to start next summer.

 

[road2ruin]

I would say De Ligt has been one of our best centre backs since he joined. He puts everything on the line. I genuinely don't see the defence being the biggest problem, but the pressure they are put under by the guys in front is incredible. Stick VVD in the Utd defence, I still think he struggles to concede any less goals than we already do.

Dorgu really impresses me with his mobility down the left, but his end product is awful. Young player, so lots to learn. If I was a coach (in my non-expert opinion), I would dedicate 90% of his training to crossing the ball.

Ugarte looked solid when he came in, but now seems to be struggling with the whole in and out of the team scenario. Moving aside to try and get the likes of Bruno, Mainoo and Casemiro in at times.

Yoro, I think he is quality. One game aside (Southampton last season), he looks fantastic to me.

Sesko, he has had one start, and came off the bench twice. Way too early to judge him. More concerning is the complete lack of ability for any of his team mates to actually try and use the striker. We could have prime Alan Shearer up top, and the rest of the team would fail to try and find him.

It's tricky though. There are a load of players I actually like, but it is hard to explain when the sum of their parts produces such awful displays. I'd love to start seeing at least 3 or 4 of the players screaming in each others faces at times, try and wake each other up. I can honestly pictuire the likes of Bruno, Dalot and others giving each other a high 5 and a pat on the back after the game last night, for doing well to get back in the game. Chin up lads, we'll do better next game. Instead they should be swinging punches at each other, and try and find a way to play with more rage, intensity, etc in future games (without crossing boundaries of course)

I agree with much of this, the defence is actually pretty decent, it's the GK that's the big issue and has to be one of INEOS's biggest failings. It was obvious to everyone that it's a problem area and despite everything we're a month into the new season with exactly the same problem as last and it's costing us. In another reality (with another GK) we would have (likely) picked up 4 points over the first 2 league games and we'd be through to the next round of the cup and that's largely down to the GK. To be honest I'd be playing Heaton at the moment which is a pretty damning indictment of our situation when you stick your 40yr old, 3rd choice in net as your best option. My worry about our incoming keeper (Senne Lammens) is that he's 23yrd old and only played in the Belgian league. This could well end up being Hojlund MkII as he'll be thrown straight in through desperation on our part and it'll be very much sink or swim for someone who is inexperienced.

The other massive issue is midfield, Casemiro's legs have fallen off and he's just seeing out his contract before a big money (for him) move to Saudi or similar. Ugarte just doesn't seem up to it which is a shame as I thought he'd do the job that we really needed doing. Ultimately though we often get overrun in midfield and teams will continue to target that area (along with the keeper on set pieces) and we're going to struggle.

On last night though, with the greatest respect to Grimsby, it shouldn't really matter which system you play. 11 vs 11 United should be winning this game with 3, 4 or 5 at the back but the players seemed to bottle it. You can blame the manager for being inflexible with the system (which I have done) but the players are better than a team 3 divisions below. Last night wasn't just 'one of those things', Grimsby out battled us in almost every area and with VAR may have found themselves 3-0 up. We battered them for the grand total of 10 minutes at the end of the match but otherwise we were second best in nearly every way. It's a mess.

 

[Swango1980]

One of the biggest Improvements at City is the way players can play out of position but still look comfortable. John Stones for instance. Centre half to centre midfield. Gvardiol ends up in the left wing position. Rico Lewis etc etc.They just look comfortable. It don’t look awkward. When I see Utd. I don’t know if the players are Shackled, playing within them selves. Playing within the system. They just don’t look comfortable.
Don’t get me wrong, there are players there who can and will more than hold their own. But for me the biggest thing that Utd need is a leader. One who is going to lead by example. And preferably a centre midfield leader. And one who is going to get the fans right behind the team.
Unfortunately at the moment the way Utd are on the pitch, teams will have no fear factor in playing against them.
The next few days in the transfer market will be massive for Utd.

This is the problem, we have a "leader" who ticks a lot of those boxes. Bruno will not shy away, and he will try and take responsibility for everything that happens on the pitch.

I think the one key component he is missing is having trust in his team mates. The leader needs to know when he is needed to stand up, take the ball and make things happen. But he also needs to know when he needs to sit back, do the dirty work, and let others in the side create the attacking spark and get some of the glory themselves. Therefore, if he is playing in a deep midfield role, he needs to dominate that position, but not try and be a hero in other positions across the pitch.

 

[Tashyboy]

I agree with much of this, the defence is actually pretty decent, it's the GK that's the big issue and has to be one of INEOS's biggest failings. It was obvious to everyone that it's a problem area and despite everything we're a month into the new season with exactly the same problem as last and it's costing us. In another reality (with another GK) we would have (likely) picked up 4 points over the first 2 league games and we'd be through to the next round of the cup and that's largely down to the GK. To be honest I'd be playing Heaton at the moment which is a pretty damning indictment of our situation when you stick your 40yr old, 3rd choice in net as your best option. My worry about our incoming keeper (Senne Lammens) is that he's 23yrd old and only played in the Belgian league. This could well end up being Hojlund MkII as he'll be thrown straight in through desperation on our part and it'll be very much sink or swim for someone who is inexperienced.

The other massive issue is midfield, Casemiro's legs have fallen off and he's just seeing out his contract before a big money (for him) move to Saudi or similar. Ugarte just doesn't seem up to it which is a shame as I thought he'd do the job that we really needed doing. Ultimately though we often get overrun in midfield and teams will continue to target that area (along with the keeper on set pieces) and we're going to struggle.

On last night though, with the greatest respect to Grimsby, it shouldn't really matter which system you play. 11 vs 11 United should be winning this game with 3, 4 or 5 at the back but the players seemed to bottle it. You can blame the manager for being inflexible with the system (which I have done) but the players are better than a team 3 divisions below. Last night wasn't just 'one of those things', Grimsby out battled us in almost every area and with VAR may have found themselves 3-0 up. We battered them for the grand total of 10 minutes at the end of the match but otherwise we were second best in nearly every way. It's a mess.

When Grimsby nearly went 3-0 I kinda thought that could be the death knell for Amorim. But him being sacked so early. Would that have been the right thing to do. Am not to sure. That said. The next four days are massive re the transfer window.And not just for who should go, because if they don’t, they won’t play and will just drag a wage. But for those they could bring in.
After that, the fixtures for Utd and more importantly results may well impact on whether Amorim stays or goes. If Utd can put together performances, Irrespective of results, if there is green shoots of recovery then all is well. One thing that is not apparent at the moment, is that the players are playing for Amorim. I still think they believe in him. If that changes, he is gone.

 

[road2ruin]

When Grimsby nearly went 3-0 I kinda thought that could be the death knell for Amorim. But him being sacked so early. Would that have been the right thing to do. Am not to sure. That said. The next four days are massive re the transfer window.And not just for who should go, because if they don’t, they won’t play and will just drag a wage. But for those they could bring in.
After that, the fixtures for Utd and more importantly results may well impact on whether Amorim stays or goes. If Utd can put together performances, Irrespective of results, if there is green shoots of recovery then all is well. One thing that is not apparent at the moment, is that the players are playing for Amorim. I still think they believe in him. If that changes, he is gone.

I thought this after the Arsenal game, was genuinely excited for the season despite not picking up any points. Since then those green shoots have been stomped into the ground and had Weedol poured all over them.....

 

[Tashyboy]

This is the problem, we have a "leader" who ticks a lot of those boxes. Bruno will not shy away, and he will try and take responsibility for everything that happens on the pitch.

I think the one key component he is missing is having trust in his team mates. The leader needs to know when he is needed to stand up, take the ball and make things happen. But he also needs to know when he needs to sit back, do the dirty work, and let others in the side create the attacking spark and get some of the glory themselves. Therefore, if he is playing in a deep midfield role, he needs to dominate that position, but not try and be a hero in other positions across the pitch.

I think the problem with Bruno being the leader, he has everything on his shoulders. He seems to have the weight of the world on them. Like when he missed the penalty the other day, it was very UnBrunoesque of him to go off like he did. If someone comes in and bears some of that burden I think he could be even better.

 

[road2ruin]

After Burnley this weekend we have....

City (A)
Chelsea (H)
Brentford (A)
Sunderland (H)
Liverpool (A)

If I include Burnley in that list I can see 4-6 points out of a possible 18 and even that's generous given last night.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I would say De Ligt has been one of our best centre backs since he joined. He puts everything on the line. I genuinely don't see the defence being the biggest problem, but the pressure they are put under by the guys in front is incredible. Stick VVD in the Utd defence, I still think he struggles to concede any less goals than we already do.

Dorgu really impresses me with his mobility down the left, but his end product is awful. Young player, so lots to learn. If I was a coach (in my non-expert opinion), I would dedicate 90% of his training to crossing the ball.

Ugarte looked solid when he came in, but now seems to be struggling with the whole in and out of the team scenario. Moving aside to try and get the likes of Bruno, Mainoo and Casemiro in at times.

Yoro, I think he is quality. One game aside (Southampton last season), he looks fantastic to me.

Sesko, he has had one start, and came off the bench twice. Way too early to judge him. More concerning is the complete lack of ability for any of his team mates to actually try and use the striker. We could have prime Alan Shearer up top, and the rest of the team would fail to try and find him.

It's tricky though. There are a load of players I actually like, but it is hard to explain when the sum of their parts produces such awful displays. I'd love to start seeing at least 3 or 4 of the players screaming in each others faces at times, try and wake each other up. I can honestly pictuire the likes of Bruno, Dalot and others giving each other a high 5 and a pat on the back after the game last night, for doing well to get back in the game. Chin up lads, we'll do better next game. Instead they should be swinging punches at each other, and try and find a way to play with more rage, intensity, etc in future games (without crossing boundaries of course)

Re Sesko
Are you not worried that as a striker he is the last outfield player to step up and take a pen?
If he isn’t fit enough to take a pen he is going to be missing all season.
He shouldn’t need game time to take a pen, he’s a striker

 

[clubchamp98]

Re Sesko
Are you not worried that as a striker he is the last outfield player to step up and take a pen?
If he isn’t fit enough to take a pen he is going to be missing all season.
He shouldn’t need game time to take a pen, he’s a striker

Lots of strikers don’t like taking pens always thought that was strange.

 

[4LEX]

After Burnley this weekend we have....

City (A)
Chelsea (H)
Brentford (A)
Sunderland (H)
Liverpool (A)

If I include Burnley in that list I can see 4-6 points out of a possible 18 and even that's generous given last night.

You're being a bit harsh there. You will pick up 6 against Burnley and Sunderland, probably get 3 points at Brentford and could easily pick up a point against Chelsea. City and Liverpool haven't looked exactly brilliant either.

I reckon anything under 9 points from that would be well below par.

 

[road2ruin]

You're being a bit harsh there. You will pick up 6 against Burnley and Sunderland, probably get 3 points at Brentford and could easily pick up a point against Chelsea. City and Liverpool haven't looked exactly brilliant either.

I reckon anything under 9 points from that would be well below par.

You say that but I would have also expected us to pick up 3 at Fulham given the performance vs Arsenal. However after that performance and that of last night I don't see any of those games as being definite 3 pointers.

 

[4LEX]

You say that but I would have also expected us to pick up 3 at Fulham given the performance vs Arsenal. However after that performance and that of last night I don't see any of those games as being definite 3 pointers.

True but Fulham are considerably better than Burnley and Sunderland. I guess it depends which side turns up too, the one v Arsenal or the one last night.

 

[Orikoru]

You're being a bit harsh there. You will pick up 6 against Burnley and Sunderland, probably get 3 points at Brentford and could easily pick up a point against Chelsea. City and Liverpool haven't looked exactly brilliant either.

I reckon anything under 9 points from that would be well below par.

They just failed to beat Grimsby...

I reckon 7 points, they should have enough to beat Burnley and Sunderland, and will probably get a point away at Brentford. City, Chelsea and Liverpool should all beat them comfortably.