The Footie Thread

[irip]

It’s all getting rather messy.

I don’t understand the rationale. After nearly a year in charge, we’ve spent £200m on a front three and done absolutely nothing to strengthen the midfield. Nothing at all.

The ease with which Grimsby played last night was scary. There are just gaping holes in that midfield, with Fernandes being defensively poor again when he came on, and Ugarte showing once more he lacks both the awareness and mobility to play in this system.

I pray we get two more players in before the window closes. One has to be in that midfield, and a new ‘keeper is an absolute necessity. Onana simply does not command his area, especially his six yard box, in a way a top ‘keeper should. And he’s nowhere near vocal enough. You can see that in games. He’s had ample time to adapt his game to suit English football and isn’t up to it.

Where would Amorim’s departure leave us? In an even bigger mess, having spent a fortune on players he wants for his system, who may be unwanted by a new manager. He HAS to either be flexible himself, or get the right players in the right positions.

I don’t think they are actually that far from having a fairly decent squad.
To expect them to finish top 4 or qualify for Europe is a huge jump from where they finished last season.

They desperately need a keeper, I honestly think they have the 2 worst keepers in the league and with Donnarumma available I don’t know why they have not gone all out for him.
He may not be the best with the ball at his feet but the rest of his game is brilliant and I’m a bit old school as I want a keeper who makes saves and deals with balls in the box.

I reckon he gains them 12 points a season on what they have now.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Reading comments from some of the lads who went to the Everton v Stags game. Suffice to say they were not blown away with the new ground. Main gripes being it looks like things are done on the cheap. Not impressed with the lavvys and “ a right hike to the buses after the game”.

Every single person I have seen on sical media and mates that have been have said it’s great

If someone is wanting to complain about the toilets they are prob looking for something to moan about

The atmosphere is supposed to outstanding

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Just seen it. Looks like a man who has absolutely no clue who he is, where he is, why he’s there or how to do anything about it.

So glad that we didn’t pursue too much and the reasons why are very clever - the lack of flexibility in his tactics

 

[Don Barzini]

I don’t think they are actually that far from having a fairly decent squad.

If my team’s squad cost £1.1bn, I reckon I’d be hoping for a little bit more than being “not far off fairly decent” tbh. But maybe that’s modern football.

 

[Swango1980]

It’s all getting rather messy.

I don’t understand the rationale. After nearly a year in charge, we’ve spent £200m on a front three and done absolutely nothing to strengthen the midfield. Nothing at all.

The ease with which Grimsby played last night was scary. There are just gaping holes in that midfield, with Fernandes being defensively poor again when he came on, and Ugarte showing once more he lacks both the awareness and mobility to play in this system.

I pray we get two more players in before the window closes. One has to be in that midfield, and a new ‘keeper is an absolute necessity. Onana simply does not command his area, especially his six yard box, in a way a top ‘keeper should. And he’s nowhere near vocal enough. You can see that in games. He’s had ample time to adapt his game to suit English football and isn’t up to it.

Where would Amorim’s departure leave us? In an even bigger mess, having spent a fortune on players he wants for his system, who may be unwanted by a new manager. He HAS to either be flexible himself, or get the right players in the right positions.

The attack last year was awful, it needed strengthened. Problem is, we not only strengthened it, but we still pretty much have ALL the same players we had last season.

We need to streamline the squad, but getting rid of players is very difficult.

In the No. 10 position, we now have Cunha, Mbeumo, Bruno, Mount, Amad and Zirkzee. So, we try and shift some of them to other areas. Bruno deep midfield, Amad right wing back, Cunha up front. Every game is different, absolutely no idea who will be playing and in what position, from game to game. Mount another conundrum, as he was generally always missing due to injury. Now he is fit, where does he fit into the equation?

However it is done, they needed to decide how the first team would look, have some cover in areas, and then look to ditch the rest. Use that money to strengthen areas we have holes. Get a better keeper, better deep midfielder, better right wing back (depending on how much the money can stretch).

No Europe this year, so rotation should not be needed. Get a strong core you are happy with to start, and just look to build from there.

Players just coming in to play a game every now and then, they often look lost. Look rusty. They have no rhythm. That first half was shocking. Everything was so slow. It felt like an early pre season game to some of those players.

The board have done well in bringing in Sesko, Cunha and Mbeumo in my opinion. But they, so far, look lost in trying to get players out

 

[Swango1980]

Reading comments from some of the lads who went to the Everton v Stags game. Suffice to say they were not blown away with the new ground. Main gripes being it looks like things are done on the cheap. Not impressed with the lavvys and “ a right hike to the buses after the game”.

Strange, as the 2 guys that I know who went to the opening game were in absolute awe of it. They thought is was outstanding.

 

[irip]

If my team’s squad cost £1.1bn, I reckon I’d be hoping for a little bit more than being “not far off fairly decent” tbh. But maybe that’s modern football.

Or maybe it’s a club who spent a £billion really poorly?

The recruitment at United for a long time has been really poor.

It’s why they have spent that much money, if they had spent well then they wouldn’t need to keep spending serious money, how much have they spent trying to find a right winger?

Just Sancho and Antony was £150 million and they are stuck with them both still as no one wants to buy them (for the money United want).

Now they don’t play with a right winger at all

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The board have done well in bringing in Sesko, Cunha and Mbeumo in my opinion. But they, so far, look lost in trying to get players out

There is a reason for that though. The players they are trying to move are not remotely attractive at the wages they are on. The question becomes, how much of a hit are Utd going to take in terms of subsidising those wages. They may have started the window saying zero, but this will have to change. (Everton went through this phase over the last 2-3 years, although at a lower wage level. Poor players brought in by random managers, failing to live up to their fee and on excessive wages. It holds the club / squad back until they are all gone)

 

[Tashyboy]

Of course they do, it’s crap, rubbish, cheap nasty and so on and to then bring it up on the forums here, how about going and seeing for yourself and make your own judgement.

Personally most people think it’s ace with great atmosphere and a great stadium but nope you have do you.

After 54 years I’ve lost of the love of football and it’s driven by people, social media and 24 hour press along with the hatred that pervades it as a whole.

Oh right so when I hear the same lads say that the spurs ground is absolutely amazing, as has everyone else, I have to go and see for myself. Glad we sorted that out.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Or maybe it’s a club who spent a £billion really poorly?

The recruitment at United for a long time has been really poor.

It’s why they have spent that much money, if they had spent well then they wouldn’t need to keep spending serious money, how much have they spent trying to find a right winger?

Just Sancho and Antony was £150 million and they are stuck with them both still as no one wants to buy them (for the money United want).

Now they don’t play with a right winger at all

I think the club has had issues with bringing players in and they have bought some real rubbish but the squad is better than the results they are putting out

And that imo is down to a manager who has one way of playing and either he doesn’t have the ability to change or is being too stubborn

Either way it’s ruining his reputation

 

[Billysboots]

There is a reason for that though. The players they are trying to move are not remotely attractive at the wages they are on. The question becomes, how much of a hit are Utd going to take in terms of subsidising those wages. They may have started the window saying zero, but this will have to change. (Everton went through this phase over the last 2-3 years, although at a lower wage level. Poor players brought in by random managers, failing to live up to their fee and on excessive wages. It holds the club / squad back until they are all gone)

The issue with moving players on is well documented. Long term contracts with ludicrous terms. If you throw into the mix awful attitudes, certainly in the cases of Garnacho and Sancho, it’s no surprise we can’t sell easily. They’re hardly attractive propositions. If I was a supporter of another club looking on, I wouldn’t want them.

If anyone is daft enough to offer £10m for Sancho, just sell. Take the first offer which comes in. That is, of course, if he agrees a wage cut. Big rumours doing the rounds now that United have made him an ultimatum - take an offer or we will trigger the one year extension in his contract and let him rot.

I think Chelsea are taking the rise with Garnacho. They’re happy to sell their own players at a premium but won’t meet the asking price for him. But who can blame them? He’s said they’re the only club he wants, and they know we want rid. What a mess.

I see what @Swango1980 has said as regards outgoings and I agree. I also agree the forward line needed upgrading. But United have said all summer they don’t need to sell big in this window in order to buy. So the lack of business after Sesko is becoming a concern, especially when it’s so desperately needed in two key positions. I said early in the summer a new ‘keeper wasn’t a priority. I thought the back up options could cope. Sadly, our second choice is even more flaky than our first.

EDIT: Predictive text altered my asking price for Sancho to £1. It would perhaps have been more accurate to leave it at that!

 

[Tashyboy]

Re what happened last night re Grimsby and Utd. The problems are many. It ended in a penalty shootout but could have quite easily been 3-0 Grimsby at one point.
Points mentioned.
Keeper.
Onana should never put on a United shirt again. He is just not good enough. PSG want Donnarumma gone. As has been said, he could save Utd 12 points a year. I think it could be more. Onana costs more that 12 points a year. PSG want rid because he is not the best with his feet. And have gone for a keeper that is to take them to the next level. Personally he is one of the best in the world. Why Utd have not at least tested the waters I don’t know.
Team.
For me part of the problem is they are not fluid. They play one way and that’s it. So who is that down to.
Amorim.
Everyone knew what his system was. And when they battered City the other year they could have been 3-0 down. The difference was they had Gykores who was on fire. Who is now at Arsenal.. The problems are many is with Amorim’s System he don’t have the players to do it and it is to rigid. Against Arsenal last week. Utd sat back and hit on the break. That’s fine, but against lower league placed teams like last night they are open to being massively exposed.
I think it is going to be another long season for Utd fans. It’s not even the end of August and Utd have only the league and FA cup to play for.

 

[irip]

I think the club has had issues with bringing players in and they have bought some real rubbish but the squad is better than the results they are putting out

And that imo is down to a manager who has one way of playing and either he doesn’t have the ability to change or is being too stubborn

Either way it’s ruining his reputation

The manager is not producing anywhere near the results required.

Do they stay with him or rip up the textbook and start over again with someone else.

If it’s the latter and the new man comes in what happens to the players bought during Amorin’s tenure.

It’s back to square one again as the new man will want his own players and system.

I think they would be better off sticking with him.

Or maybe a decent caretaker till they get the man they want. What is Ole up to nowadays?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Oh right so when I hear the same lads say that the spurs ground is absolutely amazing, as has everyone else, I have to go and see for myself. Glad we sorted that out.

Surely that’s the point though isn’t it. Just because someone says it’s good or bad is irrelevant our opinions should be based on experiences and therefore experiencing both stadiums otherwise we just take everyone else says as gospel!!

Personally I can’t stand the new Spurs stadium having been there after people told me it was amazing !

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

The issue with moving players on is well documented. Long term contracts with ludicrous terms. If you throw into the mix awful attitudes, certainly in the cases of Garnacho and Sancho, it’s no surprise we can’t sell easily. They’re hardly attractive propositions. If I was a supporter of another club looking on, I wouldn’t want them.

If anyone is daft enough to offer £10m for Sancho, just sell. Take the first offer which comes in. That is, of course, if he agrees a wage cut. Big rumours doing the rounds now that United have made him an ultimatum - take an offer or we will trigger the one year extension in his contract and let him rot.

I think Chelsea are taking the rise with Garnacho. They’re happy to sell their own players at a premium but won’t meet the asking price for him. But who can blame them? He’s said they’re the only club he wants, and they know we want rid. What a mess.

I see what @Swango1980 has said as regards outgoings and I agree. I also agree the forward line needed upgrading. But United have said all summer they don’t need to sell big in this window in order to buy. So the lack of business after Sesko is becoming a concern, especially when it’s so desperately needed in two key positions. I said early in the summer a new ‘keeper wasn’t a priority. I thought the back up options could cope. Sadly, our second choice is even more flaky than our first.

EDIT: Predictive text altered my asking price for Sancho to £1. It would perhaps have been more accurate to leave it at that!

That just seems completely ridiculous as an idea. You’d have to pay him another years worth of wages just to rot.l, which would make the club look even more stupid and out of pocket by trying to prove a point

 

[Billysboots]

That just seems completely ridiculous as an idea. You’d have to pay him another years worth of wages just to rot.l, which would make the club look even more stupid and out of pocket by trying to prove a point

I don’t vouch for the truth of the rumour, but I suspect they’re at their wits end with him.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I don’t vouch for the truth of the rumour, but I suspect they’re at their wits end with him.

Sounds like some bat crazy Chinese whispers that then. But the club can’t blame Sancho for what he’s doing they offered him the contract why should he fold and leave for less when he has a legally binding agreement that the club offered.

I get why fans want him to leave and why he is toxic so I’m not defending the man or player. Just merely pointing what he’s doing is technically and legally right he’s just seeing out a well paid employment contract as we’d all be entitled to do, so the club as a business cannot be angry at him but should be at themselves for allowing it to occur over and again with these ridiculous contracts.

 

[Swango1980]

There is a reason for that though. The players they are trying to move are not remotely attractive at the wages they are on. The question becomes, how much of a hit are Utd going to take in terms of subsidising those wages. They may have started the window saying zero, but this will have to change. (Everton went through this phase over the last 2-3 years, although at a lower wage level. Poor players brought in by random managers, failing to live up to their fee and on excessive wages. It holds the club / squad back until they are all gone)

I agree. I'm not thinking selling players is like playing FIFA, where you can just get rid. Giving players ridiculous contracts for years has been a huge problem. Added to that the personality of some of the players, who seem to think they are untouchable. Probably have people around them that blow smoke up their backside, makes them feel more important than they actually are. I can certainly see their point of view of wanting to not lose out on the nice juicy contract. But, when they go into king sulk mode, perhaps trying to drive down their asking price so that they can go to some other top club, it infuriates me. At the end of the day, they may well drive down the asking price. But, at the same time, they probably put off just about every club that would have been interested in signing them. Seriously, who wants to take a risk on little brats like Sancho and Garnacho, regardless of how technically good at football they may be? Even if they wanted to leave, and Utd were happy for them to leave, had they given 100% at all times, been professional, then they would ultimately have had many more options to choose from. But, that is too difficult for them. Because if Utd are playing poorly, they'd rather distance themselves from being blamed. Not my fault sir, it is the managers fault, it is the other players fault, it is the stadiums fault, it is the training grounds fault, etc.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Think Sir Gareth Southgate would be getting more out of the current players than what Amorin is

He would set up the team up better and give all the players a clean slate

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Think Sir Gareth Southgate would be getting more out of the current players than what Amorin is

He would set up the team up better and give all the players a clean slate

Ouch that’s painful to say and probably so very true