The Footie Thread

[Fade and Die]

There would be no doubt that if Liverpool fans or indeed any other fans had caused a game to be postponed then there would be repercussions including the opposition being awarded the game
.

This is unlikely, when West Ham had a bit of a pitch invasion against Burnley the club were fined £100K.

But the Burnley game had customers who paid to gain admittance and were classified as club supporters.

The people who gate crashed into Old Trafford didn't pay and are classified as criminal elements. Not supporters. Therefore the club is not responsible
and no charges can be brought against it.... Bit like a burgler breaking into your house. Your not held accountable for the crime.

 

[Old Skier]

Seems to me that to many are focusing on a 100 odd drunken louts running around with their cans of larger who should be sought out and punished rather than the few hundred peaceful demonstrators who did their bit and went home.

They weren’t fans in the stadium, just a bunch of hooligans wanting there faces of FB.

 

[clubchamp98]

Seems to me that to many are focusing on a 100 odd drunken louts running around with their cans of larger who should be sought out and punished rather than the few hundred peaceful demonstrators who did their bit and went home.

They weren’t fans in the stadium, just a bunch of hooligans wanting there faces of FB.

Yes I agree , but it does Beg the question.
How did that many get in the ground.?
Even with match day security protocols that many people would not get through security.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ridiculous statement.
It's not happened before, there is no precedent, therefore there has to be doubt ......................... obviously.
Just think about what you're posting, maybe even pretend it's not Manchester United?
Measure twice, cut once.

Yesterday Man Utd fans staged a protest that turned violent , flares being thrown at people , bottles being thrown at the police which included two being injured that resulted in a football matched being abandoned

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....est-police-officers-injured-b1841059.html?amp



And your response is to deflect , point fingers at people being bias and bring in an incident that involved Liverpool - have you even condemned the incident or their actions. Nope you just continue to point at others.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Yes I agree , but it does Beg the question.
How did that many get in the ground.?
Even with match day security protocols that many people would not get through security.

How many police do you need at a ground when in theory there are no spectators present?

Equally there comes a point when the police have to make a judgement based on weight of numbers and the force required to keep people out. It may just have made sense to let them break through. If a mob can break into the Capitol building in Washington then they can certainly do the same to a football ground.

 

[clubchamp98]

How many police do you need at a ground when in theory there are no spectators present?

Equally there comes a point when the police have to make a judgement based on weight of numbers and the force required to keep people out. It may just have made sense to let them break through. If a mob can break into the Capitol building in Washington then they can certainly do the same to a football ground.

Yes I see your point.
But just one person intent on bigger things ( god forbid) would be a massive problem.
Seems to me that if there is a smaller police presence then the clubs own security measures are not good enough.
But that could be true of any club not expecting a fans protest.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Seems to me that to many are focusing on a 100 odd drunken louts running around with their cans of larger who should be sought out and punished rather than the few hundred peaceful demonstrators who did their bit and went home.

They weren’t fans in the stadium, just a bunch of hooligans wanting there faces of FB.

That’s just life as a whole - the minority will always be focused on if they cause any issues , the protest started peacefully and I suspect every fan was behind them in the same way people were when Chelsea fans and Arsenal fans were protesting recently - but it took a nasty turn inside the stadium and then escalated after that so their reasoning for their protest will get lost.

Football always seems to find ways to kick itself - over the last 18 months all the good that clubs have done with Covid and NHS get ignored when players break guidelines for parties , clubs look to use the furlough scheme , then the ESL and now this.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Yes I see your point.
But just one person intent on bigger things ( god forbid) would be a massive problem.
Seems to me that if there is a smaller police presence then the clubs own security measures are not good enough.
But that could be true of any club not expecting a fans protest.

I suspect it comes down to how committed are the mob, what are the police/ security defending? If it's people then they will likely dig in. Just property then rightly they will only go so far.

It's like I've been told previously on foreign business trips, if someone stops you and demands money, watch phone etc then just hand them over. Possessions can be replaced, buildings fixed. Injuries to people, possibly serious or leading to deaths, not worth it.

 

[fundy]

How many police do you need at a ground when in theory there are no spectators present?

Equally there comes a point when the police have to make a judgement based on weight of numbers and the force required to keep people out. It may just have made sense to let them break through. If a mob can break into the Capitol building in Washington then they can certainly do the same to a football ground.

apart from they knew there was going to be a protest so were expecting fans to turn up

 

[Lord Tyrion]

apart from they knew there was going to be a protest so were expecting fans to turn up

I guess it then comes down to operational decisions. How many did they expect, would it be peaceful, did they expect it just to stay outside or was a breach openly talked about?

Anyway, it's only Old Trafford. Why defend that ?.

 

[Tashyboy]

I’m sure on here we heard from fans of the Big 6 ( and me) that docking them points for the ESL plan was unfair on the fans and players because it was the owners at fault.

So on what planet would it be fair to the owner and players of Man Utd to, in effect, dock them 3 points by awarding the game to LPool because it was fans at fault?

The planet that gets Liverpool 3 points that helps them qualify for the champs league. It’s not a planet that I suspect most Liverpool fans are on though. ?

 

[clubchamp98]

The planet that gets Liverpool 3 points that helps them qualify for the champs league. It’s not a planet that I suspect most Liverpool fans are on though. ?

Yes your right Tash I would not want to qualify like that.
But money fines don’t work at this level. Don’t know the answer!

But struggling to understand how so many fans got in the ground.
It’s my understanding the Police are only responsible for outside the ground.
Clubs are responsible inside . ( ready to be educated)
It’s like someone opened a gate to let them in.
Maybe the club should not turn off its social media ?
Something is not quite right.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why not, get out of your ivory tower.

I certainly hope that peaceful, and intelligent pressure can be brought to bear, but if it doesnt other pressure may work and I genuinely hope it doesnt have to come to it.

Did the banks just turn up one day and say thats it? No they didnt. The pressure was applied over many months, as well as online intelligent pressure, which in turn led to changes in the board structure and so on. Its a long tale, but the bank was the end game.

It doesnt have to be every fan, why do you persist with this?

Again, why every fan?

Were the German clubs owned by the fans 20 years ago? I dont think so. If you dont attempt anything, you'll get nowhere.

20 years ago how much would it cost to buy a top level club

Right now the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool , Man Utd are valued at above £3bn - so how much would that mean for “fans” to gain a controlling stake in a Prem club to bring in what happens in Germany

And even then the 50+1 is far from perfect - how many clubs challenge Bayern ? 15 titles in the last 20 years and the last 8 in a row , that’s not great

The protest the Man Utd fans will make little difference to their owners- I think it’s wrong that leveraged buy outs are allowed and it’s shocking the level of debt that is against the club but as we saw with FFP - it’s toothless. It would be great if the sport brought in cast iron financial regulations to ensure that leveraged buyouts can’t happen but the governing bodies don’t care as long as they get their share of the coin

If fans really want to hit their owners hard then hit them where it hurts - the pockets , don’t buy tickets , don’t buy merchandise, don’t buy subscription- the whole fan base stop putting money into the club and their pockets - that’s what would wake them up and get them sold

And then regulate the spending within the game - agent fees , transfer fees , wage caps etc - reign it all back.

But it’s such a shame that people didn’t stand up to help clubs like Bury and also why the governing bodies don’t react in the same way to racist behaviour towards players etc

 

[Tashyboy]

Yes your right Tash I would not want to qualify like that.
But money fines don’t work at this level. Don’t know the answer!

But struggling to understand how so many fans got in the ground.
It’s my understanding the Police are only responsible for outside the ground.
Clubs are responsible inside . ( ready to be educated)
It’s like someone opened a gate to let them in.
Maybe the club should not turn off its social media ?
Something is not quite right.

I tend to think football is at a bit of a cross rds Re most clubs.

As i mentioned as a City fan I am happy. Yes the recent super league leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. But look at Utd. I read a piece the other day re how much debt the Glaziers saddled Utd with when buying them. It then showed how much they still owe. It then showed how much they have paid themselves since buying the club. Sweet mother and the wee donkey. No wonder the Utd fans are bogged off. But don’t forget it was the prem league that found the Glaziers “ fit and proper” to buy the club. Sweet mother and the wee donkey. All this time utd fans saying City are doing it wrong by using outside money to invest in the club. So putting money in is wrong, but taking money out is wrong. ? wee donkey.
It seems that fans are now an inconvenient afterthought who are only there to empty there wallets on match day. It seems enough is enough.Well at Utd anyway.
I find it interesting that Neville has a massive rant about Utd/ Glaziers re the super league, no dialogue with fans. Yet he uses the very platform Sky/ his employer who were buying into the super league to air his distaste in the way billionaires are killing football. Talking about Billionaires in football, anyone googled who is a Major stake owner in Salford City a club Neville has invested in. None other than Peter Lim, who also owns Valencia. And there in lies a lot of the problems within football. Hypocrisy. Be it football clubs, Neville, Sky, billionaires and even fans, the whole of football is riddled with it. Ave said it before and al say it again. The beautiful game is looking pig ugly.

 

[clubchamp98]

I tend to think football is at a bit of a cross rds Re most clubs.

As i mentioned as a City fan I am happy. Yes the recent super league leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. But look at Utd. I read a piece the other day re how much debt the Glaziers saddled Utd with when buying them. It then showed how much they still owe. It then showed how much they have paid themselves since buying the club. Sweet mother and the wee donkey. No wonder the Utd fans are bogged off. But don’t forget it was the prem league that found the Glaziers “ fit and proper” to buy the club. Sweet mother and the wee donkey. All this time utd fans saying City are doing it wrong by using outside money to invest in the club. So putting money in is wrong, but taking money out is wrong. ? wee donkey.
It seems that fans are now an inconvenient afterthought who are only there to empty there wallets on match day. It seems enough is enough.Well at Utd anyway.
I find it interesting that Neville has a massive rant about Utd/ Glaziers re the super league, no dialogue with fans. Yet he uses the very platform Sky/ his employer who were buying into the super league to air his distaste in the way billionaires are killing football. Talking about Billionaires in football, anyone googled who is a Major stake owner in Salford City a club Neville has invested in. None other than Peter Lim, who also owns Valencia. And there in lies a lot of the problems within football. Hypocrisy. Be it football clubs, Neville, Sky, billionaires and even fans, the whole of football is riddled with it. Ave said it before and al say it again. The beautiful game is looking pig ugly.

Yes but both models look wrong on all levels.
Doors open and the horse has bolted .
It’s just business now.

 

[Slime]

Yesterday Man Utd fans staged a protest that turned violent , flares being thrown at people , bottles being thrown at the police which included two being injured that resulted in a football matched being abandoned

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-protest-police-officers-injured-b1841059.html?amp

View attachment 36440

And your response is to deflect , point fingers at people being bias and bring in an incident that involved Liverpool - have you even condemned the incident or their actions. Nope you just continue to point at others.

You seriously think I'm not disgusted by the violent minority, really?

 

[Old Skier]

Report coming in that MC fans doing a Utd, don't like to be outdone up north.

 

[Old Skier]

You seriously think I'm not disgusted by the violent minority, really?

Id hope that most people would be disgusted by the violent thuggery carried out on a police officer whether its a minority or a full blown riot.

 

[Tashyboy]

Report coming in that MC fans doing a Utd, don't like to be outdone up north.

If they are they will do it with a Holland’s pie in there hands.

 

[Tashyboy]

Yes but both models look wrong on all levels.
Doors open and the horse has bolted .
It’s just business now.

This, Sheik Mansoor bought a football club and now has a global business.