The Footie Thread

[Bunkermagnet]

That's the definition of entitlement.

You make it sound like all the beat club sides play lovely entertaining football against any inferior opponent they come across.

They don't. Latest example I can think of is Liverpool losing to Plymouth. I'm sure Liverpool fans were very disappointed, but weren't screaming for players to go. And had Liverpool won that game 3-0, they would have been completely satisfied, job done.

But, when England play, it seems many fans just feel entitled to seeing awe inspiring attacking football and lots of goals (not too many though, otherwise the opposition are criticised and told they should are not good enough to warrant a game v England). Completely lose the fact it is difficult to break a team down with 11 men behind the ball.

It's laughable to me when fans say the players couldn't work out how to break the opposition down, despite scoring 3 goals

Liverpool weren't playing anything like the first team, England supposedly were.

Its strange how the 5live commentary were saying "the players should be able to work it out themselves", and thats Rob Greens words.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Liverpool weren't playing anything like the first team, England supposedly were.

Its strange how the 5live commentary were saying "the players should be able to work it out themselves", and thats Rob Greens words.

Funnily enough, Lee Dixon was saying the same thing on tv commentary. Do you think they were chatting about this in the press box beforehand?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It’s Tuchel football

Functional

He hasn’t got the job to excite people because he teams have never been exciting to watch

He got to jump because in a major tournament he managed to get a Chelsea team to win

He is the manager that United should have approached

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Funnily enough, Lee Dixon was saying the same thing on tv commentary. Do you think they were chatting about this in the press box beforehand?

At a very basic, grassrots level how many Sunday teams with limited training, tactics etc need to work it out on the pitch and managed to normally find something that helps. It isn't that hard surely, especially for elite players in a national side

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Funny how Tuchel is already to blame. Two games in with limited time to undo years of Southgate don't lose at all cost mentality and yet the new manager isn't exciting. There must be a reason why he got the jump on other candidates

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Funny how Tuchel is already to blame. Two games in with limited time to undo years of Southgate don't lose at all cost mentality and yet the new manager isn't exciting. There must be a reason why he got the jump on other candidates

I'm not blaming the manager, I'm blaming the players.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm not blaming the manager, I'm blaming the players.

No but some are

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Looks like all the rumours are that the worst right back in prem history is going to Real Madrid for a cool £15mil a year - not sure why they would want someone who is so bad

 

[PJ87]

Funny how Tuchel is already to blame. Two games in with limited time to undo years of Southgate don't lose at all cost mentality and yet the new manager isn't exciting. There must be a reason why he got the jump on other candidates

A Lot of people can't look past the fact he is German unfortunately

 

[Swango1980]

Liverpool weren't playing anything like the first team, England supposedly were.

Its strange how the 5live commentary were saying "the players should be able to work it out themselves", and thats Rob Greens words.

Commentators say all sorts of strange things. If it was that easy, there wouldn't really be a need for a coach. Just someone to pick the starting 11, and then let the players go out there and figure things out for themselves

 

[Swango1980]

At a very basic, grassrots level how many Sunday teams with limited training, tactics etc need to work it out on the pitch and managed to normally find something that helps. It isn't that hard surely, especially for elite players in a national side

Are these Sunday teams also playing against Latvia? Or, are they playing against other sides with limited training and hungover players?

 

[PJ87]

Commentators say all sorts of strange things. If it was that easy, there wouldn't really be a need for a coach. Just someone to pick the starting 11, and then let the players go out there and figure things out for themselves

Commentators have to avoid the dreaded dead air , that's why they need idiots like mataface in there just rambling random rammed down the mic to fill the airways

 

[Swango1980]

Looks like all the rumours are that the worst right back in prem history is going to Real Madrid for a cool £15mil a year - not sure why they would want someone who is so bad

Because they are getting him for free? And because they feel they can use his attacking abilities?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Commentators have to avoid the dreaded dead air , that's why they need idiots like mataface in there just rambling random rammed down the mic to fill the airways

I miss dead air. There is nothing wrong with dead air, it's a modern phenomenon on tv

 

[PJ87]

Because they are getting him for free? And because they feel they can use his attacking abilities?

Or the fact that laliga is famous for full backs that don't need to defend as strongly

Alves, carlos spring to mind of two examples

 

[nickjdavis]

I'm not sure what fans are expecting? For England to go out, play eye catchingly beautiful football against opponents such as these, and get big wins?

From what I see, every other top international side (the ones who actually win tournaments) have narrow results and draws against much weaker sides. So why should England be any different?

England are ultimately a group of players who don't normally play together, coming up against a side who stuck 10/11 men behind the ball. It's not easy to tear the opposition to pieces and score a bucket load of goals, especially as many low ranked international teams these days are still coached much better than decades ago.

It was a boring game, yes. As is also often the case when a top PL side play a team many leagues lower. But, it was still an easy win, job done.

Once England come up against a top side, that is when we'll truly see if England can play front foot, attacking football, or whether they take a more negative approach and set up to defend

Its not about scoring loads of goals and tearing the opposition apart.

It is about having ideas, inventiveness, about moving the opposition around to create space for players to move into...in short...problem solving. The England players do not seem to be blessed with those sort of skills, instead the build up is slow and laboured, which immediately allows the defending team to get into shape, maintain formation, communicate and help each other in a cohesive manner.

If England were to show a bit more guile in attack, players moving around, rotating positions, dragging defenders around, taking them where they don't want to be, filling spaces that are created, playing quick ball, then that would be far more pleasing to the eye. Doesnt matter if we dont win by 4 or 5 goals. Yes we might lose the ball more often...but teams like Lativa and Albania are not likely to have the ability to hurt us on the break and 9 times out of 10 we would win the ball back before it got anywhere near our goal...just seem unwilling to take risks and try things that are a little bit different.

Dont think anyone is looking for landslide victories....just 11 players out on the park who look like they have the creative ability to overcome problems that lower ranked opposition seem to pose us.

 

[nickjdavis]

That's the definition of entitlement.

You make it sound like all the best club sides play lovely entertaining football against any inferior opponent they come across.

They don't. Latest example I can think of is Liverpool losing to Plymouth. I'm sure Liverpool fans were very disappointed, but weren't screaming for players to go. And had Liverpool won that game 3-0, they would have been completely satisfied, job done.

But, when England play, it seems many fans just feel entitled to seeing awe inspiring attacking football and lots of goals (not too many though, otherwise the opposition are criticised and told they should are not good enough to warrant a game v England). Completely lose the fact it is difficult to break a team down with 11 men behind the ball.

It's laughable to me when fans say the players couldn't work out how to break the opposition down, despite scoring 3 goals

One goal was from a free kick outside of the area.

One goal was a rare moment of individual skill...the sort of attacking intent that many are asking for...someone running at their opponent.

One goal was down to moving the opposition around and a player running from deep into space.

So just one occasion in 90 odd minutes where England created a clear goalscoring opportunity as a result of quick thinking team play and movement.

 

[nickjdavis]

Yes and to me it proves it’s not the manager it’s the players!
They seem to be different players in an England shirt.

It's the entitlement of England fans and media that holds the England team back.

Tuchel has had 8 days with this current squad, many whom he's never worked with before. It will.take time.

Dont blame Tuchel at all....I think his managerial skills will be far more valuable when we come up against the better sides in the latter stages of competitions....I believe he will be more tactically astute in the substitutions he makes when we need to change games than Southgate ever was.

However, players like Kane, Rice, Bellingham, Rashford, Foden have played together in the national shirt many times....if they haven't figured out how to work it out on the pitch between them by now, then there is no coaching that will ever solve the problem.

 

[Swango1980]

It is about having ideas, inventiveness, about moving the opposition around to create space for players to move into...in short...problem solving. The England players do not seem to be blessed with those sort of skills, instead the build up is slow and laboured, which immediately allows the defending team to get into shape, maintain formation, communicate and help each other in a cohesive manner.

Latvia had no desire to break shape. We continuously see top sides struggle to break down much weaker sides because the weaker side just park the bus. Then the manager of the top side moans that only one side came to play football, to try and excuse the fact it was a boring game and maybe only a narrow victory

One goal was from a free kick outside of the area.

One goal was a rare moment of individual skill...the sort of attacking intent that many are asking for...someone running at their opponent.

One goal was down to moving the opposition around and a player running from deep into space.

So just one occasion in 90 odd minutes where England created a clear goalscoring opportunity as a result of quick thinking team play and movement.

You are only talking about the shots that actually went in. England had 27 shots, 8 on target. A few of those were good opportunities, and well worked to get them. But, just lacked the final execution, defender makes a great block, keeper makes a good save. It often is a tough start, as the opposition are full of energy. Scoring that free kick meant England didn't need to try and batter Latvia, they could just dominate the game and see whether Latvia try and attack more (thus giving England more space), or tire themselves out

If England were to show a bit more guile in attack, players moving around, rotating positions, dragging defenders around, taking them where they don't want to be, filling spaces that are created, playing quick ball, then that would be far more pleasing to the eye.

It is an interesting thought, especially when it seems so many England fans moan when Harry Kane moves around instead of occupying the penalty spot

 

[Aztecs27]

Funny how Tuchel is already to blame. Two games in with limited time to undo years of Southgate don't lose at all cost mentality and yet the new manager isn't exciting. There must be a reason why he got the jump on other candidates

Doesn't help himself when he's not picking in-form, exciting players and opting for ones that no longer have the legs or have never ever done it in an England shirt.